The Electric vehicle car crash is a warning for Europe’s industrial transition China is so far ahead in the electric vehicles market that its competitors are trailing in the dust

Financial times ^ | 13th September 2023 | Helen Thomas

[Cronos]

At an event last week, a businessman suddenly pulled out his phone to show me his experience in a driverless taxi in downtown Beijing. In the video, a robotaxi impressively navigated a turn across several lanes of a busy road. Needless to say, the autonomous fleets roaming around an increasing number of Chinese cities are electric. The lasting impression, for him at least, was how far China has pulled ahead in the future of transport.

Those at the Munich motor show last week came to a similar conclusion. Germany’s biennial celebration of its own automotive prowess was dominated by Chinese brands, who were there in double the numbers seen in 2021. While European manufacturers showed electric vehicles coming to market in 2026 or 2027, the Chinese had cars ready for the forecourts. Gone were the shoddy motors of years past; these were quality vehicles for the European market. The sense was of an industry left behind. “It took too long to get the new reality,” says Ferdinand Dudenhöffer at the Center for Automotive Research in Duisburg. “There was a long time when carmakers said, ‘We see the issue of battery electric vehicles but we don’t believe in it.’”

The market is changing at speed. Almost one in five cars sold in Europe is electric. The International Energy Agency raised its forecast for EV share to 35 per cent of global sales in 2030, from less than 25 per cent in last year’s projection. The Chinese market, by far the world’s largest, is already there.

...

[Thistledew]

Ok. Who is “They”? The Chinese? Do these batteries require Lithium for manufacture? I am interested in knowing where this leads.

[cba123]

The Chinese have just released a new car, with a sodium battery an option (it ís less expensive, though doesn’t go as far.

Check it out

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/byds-seagull-starts-at-just-11300-and-has-sodium-ion-battery/

Nice looking car.

$11,300

(In China)

[cba123]

“ Most of them will be cheaply made Chinese devices with limited longevity and poor recyclability that will end up clogging landfills after a few years. ”

—

Based on the Chinese options already released, they already have a brand new, sodium-based, good looking, well built real car, for sale right now (see for yourself at this link;

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/byds-seagull-starts-at-just-11300-and-has-sodium-ion-battery/

For $11,300

[fireman15]

I am very familiar with purchasing items directly from China... I have done it many times.

Your link says toward the bottom referring to the electric car they are promoting, “It is unclear if BYD intends on selling the Seagull in any markets outside of China.”

Your link is basically meaningless. Yet you can already buy many types of electric vehicles from China. They seem quite cheap, but you have to add in shipping, handling, tariffs and other charges. I will stand by my previous prediction... the vast majority of the Chinese electric “vehicles” will continue to be at the lower end of the price scale for who knows how long.

Some of them are quite interesting, but they typically have limited utility because few if any comply with the myriad of rules and requirements that federal and state governments impose. And that is a big hurdle and not likely to go away any time soon.

$2000 electric truck before shipping, handling and taxes:
https://youtu.be/irpe3biuBIU

$1000 electric boat before shipping, handling and taxes:
https://youtu.be/G_P7Py0N66g

Chinese Electric Car Graveyard:
https://youtu.be/uD8qqEx4G18

[minnesota_bound]

Chinese electric cars as well built as their buildings.
Look up chinese gost cities. There are dozens of them!

See how bad their construction is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XopSDJq6w8E

[Scrambler Bob]

Just have the EVs pull in at a solar farm, or at a windmill.

Why not put some charger stations right at the source?

You can see windmills, your saviors, at a distance, and sometimes solar farms, too.

[Cronos]

Communism is:

• State control of the means of production (this is also true for fascism): This is China to large extent as state owned
• Class-less society --> this is definitely NOT China
• Command economy -->
• Centrlized political rule -->This is China
• Socialism --> yes

So it is a mixed bag - to me it seems China is more "fascist" especially with Xi in charge (as fascism must have one leader in charge)

[Cronos]

Lean=Right —> cba123 wrote “America needs even more competitive cars, Tesla”

Not more legislation, but for companies to make electric cars competitive with the Chinese electric cars

[NetAddicted]

Read later.

[Cronos]

I assume by “us” you mean you and your family.

If it is “wholly without importance” to you, why are you commenting? :)

I strongly doubt anyone is going to confiscate your or other people’s ICE vehicles. However what could happen is the infrastructure will go - just as looking for Betamax videos is getting more difficult.

I personally see a good need for electric vehicles in specific cases — densely populated cities: the Boston-DC corridor and the LA megapolis among others, while outside the USA, definitely Toronto, Vancouver, most of Western and Central Europe, the Indian megapolises (Delhi, Calcutta, Bombay, Bangalore, Madras) and the Chinese east coast.

ICE has its purpose in rural areas

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

Poor you. Re-read.

Whatever is roiling the headlines to do with "electric" transportation is wholly without importance to us.

The thread's theme is the headline, "The Electric vehicle car crash is a warning for Europe's industrial transition China is so far ahead in the electric vehicles market that its competitors are trailing in the dust"

Why is that headline without importance to us? We haven't EVs from Europe nor China. Nor investments in them. Wholly unimportant. And the comment reflects that.

Given your about page locates you in Podkarpackie, Poland, your comments/concerns about "densely populated cities" in the US is interesting. But the article addresses China being "so far ahead in the electric vehicles market that its competitors are trailing in the dust" that European "industrial transition" threatens Europe, and specifically the German manufacturers.

China. Europe. EVs. Investment in EV manufacturing and an "industrial transition." Yup. Nothing about that affects us. That is my comment. Why I include it is not yours to judge. Should I judge your "personal" view. Nope. That's yours.

[Cronos]

“Given your about page locates you in Podkarpackie, Poland, your comments/concerns about “densely populated cities” in the US is interesting.”

I didn’t indicate any “concerns” - what I did say what that densely populated cities are where electric cars make MORE sense than in rural areas.

Are to electric cars in Podkarpackie - One of my cars is an older model Tesla but my other is a Dodge Ram. For journeys around town or even to nearby towns and definitely for journeys to Krakow or Rzeszow (except in deep winter) it is the Tesla. It’s perfect.

For winter or for getting up to the hills, it is the Dodge.

Even in Podkarpackie, the distances between towns is far, FAR lower than much of the USA.

Now go back and re-read