Should Ukraine be part of NATO? The answer: it already is.

Globe and Mail - Canada ^ | Feb 4, 2023

[b_Cap37]

One by one the lines have all been crossed. Patriot missile-defence systems. Bradley armoured fighting vehicles. Leopard and Abrams tanks. Weapons that NATO had previously balked at providing Ukraine, for fear of “provoking” Russia, are now being supplied in abundance, if not in haste. The latest Ukrainian request to give NATO pause is for F-16 fighter jets, though France and Italy are already talking of going ahead with these.

That is in part a measure of Russian weakness. Each new weapons shipment brings forth blood-curdling new threats from the Russian side, up to and including nuclear war. But Western strategists have sized up the Russian threats, and decided they are so much bluff. That does not mean Russia has no red lines, but if the West took seriously every Russian threat it would not even have imposed sanctions. The tactic has been to gradually raise the ante, gauging Russia’s response each time, and thus far it has worked.

[Steven Tyler]

Russia launched a special military operation, to support local east Ukraine militia’s. And those local militias destroy a Uke army

[Toad of Toad Hall]

There is absolutely no evidence of anything you claim in paragraph 1.

What Putin wanted was the implementation of the Minsk accords. He has said himself Western Ukraine would prefer Polish administration before they would ever accept Russian rule. So, you’re totally incorrect there. Do you deny Ukraine and Russia nearly had an agreement until Boris Johnson intervened?

Further, you don’t understand what is happening on the battlefield. Russia is moving slowly under an umbrella of ISR destroying everything in front of them and preserving their own forces.

The Ukrainians spent 8 years preparing the fortifications at Bakhmut and along that line. Those fortifications have been penetrated. If there’s a line behind that one it will be easier penetrated still.

The Ukrainians can’t match Russian artillery. They are out ranged, and they are out of shells. Russia fires 20000 rounds a day. While Ukraine is down to firing 1000. Russia launches as many shells in one day as we make in a month. And ISR plus drones are what is destroying tanks. So all the promised weaponry won’t make a difference. Unless we commit to going in ourselves regime change is coming to Ukraine.

Russia has been told through Western actions that they have no negotiating partner and Kyiv won’t stop until they are destroyed.

[mac_truck]

The Ukrainians spent 8 years preparing the fortifications at Bakhmut and along that line. Those fortifications have been penetrated. If there’s a line behind that one it will be easier penetrated still.

Concurring bump...and I've seen video of the Ukies digging trenches (by hand) west of Bakhmut, so their secondary line is rudimentary at best.

[SaxxonWoods]

https://www.libertynation.com/imf-russian-economy-will-outperform-us-in-two-years/

But the notable prediction for the next two years is the strength of the Russian economy. The IMF anticipates Russia’s gross domestic product (GDP) will rebound to 0.3% in 2023 and grow by 2.1% in 2024. By comparison, IMF economists project that the US GDP growth rate will be 1.4% this year and 1% in 2024 amid higher interest rates weighing on the United States.

[Salohcin]

You apparently haven’t read Putin’s own statements about his war goals. Putin repeatedly has said that one of the purposes of the war is the “denazification” of Ukraine. As the Russians claim that Zelensky and his entire government are “Nazis”, how do you “denazify” the country WITHOUT regime change?

[Sacajaweau]

Hell....this way they don’t even have to pay their 2%.

[NorseViking]

Others are busy to weight in.

[fireman15]

Only a fool would analyze the West's actions over the last year and conclude, yep, we've been successful sticking it to Russia.

The reason Biden and all of our top Democrat leadership along with deep staters on our side support continuing the madness in Ukraine has nothing to do with the Ukrainian people or military actions. It is the biggest money laundering operation in the history of the world.

None of the money from US taxpayers has been properly accounted for. It is impossible to say exactly what percentage has been used for actual war materials vs how much has lined the pockets of Zelinsky and company vs how much has made it back to lefty and deep state politicians and insiders in the USA.

FTX and other high profile cryptocurrency scams in 2022 were right in the middle of all of this. And the Democrats were the primary recipients along with deep staters such as Mitch McConnel and Lindsay Graham. None of them are giving the money that they received from FTX back to the creditors who were ripped off and somehow those who lost $Billions are not making a huge deal about it. Why? Because the vast majority ultimately came from the biggest cash cow in the history of the world... US taxpayers.

We should all be screaming to high heaven... instead we have the Ukrainian distraction to keep our war mongering couch potato neocons occupied and in bed with Biden, AOC, the squad, and every other lefty politician. Why are people like AOC and her cabal all for the meat grinder in Ukraine when they normally would be protesting any involvement in any war that we get involved in? It is because unlike the pack of war mongering neocons we hear from over and over and over again here at Free Republic they understand that at its heart this is a scam and vast amounts of money from the scam are lining their pockets and also paying for the endless effort to subvert our election process and keep them in power.

And what about Putin and the Russians? Why do they keep playing along? In 2022 their energy imports alone brought in more than $100 Billion more for less output than they did in 2021. Their losses are being exaggerated to the same extent as deaths from Covid were, while their sticky Commie fingers are pulling back $Billions from the money pot. Putin is likely the largest recipient of ill-gotten gain in all of this.

US citizens are not only paying directly for the huge scam, we are being screwed by high energy prices and inflation and a huge amount of this money is ending up back in Putin's hands. It is a global economy and the “sanctions” have been a joke. Russia is laughing all the way to the bank.

Meanwhile here at Free Republic the Neocon Couch Potato War Hawks are standing with Biden, AOC and a bunch of cynical lefty and deep state politicians cheering on our team every day and having a fantastic time while our great country being destroyed... Look how happy that they are.

We are winning!!! Yay! Yay! Congratulations morons!

[BenLurkin]

[tlozo]

Petr Pavel: Ukraine deserves to join Nato, says new Czech leader

Czech President-elect Petr Pavel has told the BBC that Ukraine should be allowed to join Nato "as soon as the war is over".

Mr Pavel, a retired Nato general, said Ukraine would be "morally and practically ready" to join the Western alliance once the conflict had ended.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64455121

[fireman15]

But the notable prediction for the next two years is the strength of the Russian economy.

The Russian economy has been enjoying the benefits of high energy prices, high food, and high fertilizer prices caused by the cynically ridiculous “sanctions” from the beginning. They took in $100 Billion more in 2022 from their energy exports alone than they did in 2021. Aside from highly exaggerated casualties from the “war” Russians have been living it up while US Taxpayers and consumers are footing the bill.

[BobL]

“Well... they have already lost 200.000 Russian soldiers in only a year”

You wouldn’t be selling any of what you’re using...would you?

[BobL]

” Putin didn’t want just a few eastern provinces, he wanted the entire country.”

Link please.

[BobL]

‘There is absolutely no evidence of anything you claim in paragraph 1.”

I think the Neocon Supporters are FAR BEYOND providing any backup to their claims.

[BobL]

“As the Russians claim that Zelensky and his entire government are “Nazis””

Link please.

[BobL]

“Meanwhile here at Free Republic the Neocon Couch Potato War Hawks are standing with Biden, AOC and a bunch of cynical lefty and deep state politicians cheering on our team every day and having a fantastic time while our great country being destroyed... Look how happy that they are.”

Amazing, isn’t it. They are supporting EVERYONE WE HATE, and then giving us crap for not doing the same. If that doesn’t reek operatives, I don’t know what does.

[fireman15]

Amazing, isn't it. They are supporting EVERYONE WE HATE, and then giving us crap for not doing the same.

It has been one of the most outrageous examples of either stupidity, or paid cynical propaganda that I have ever seen here in close to 20 years. People with common sense look around to see who is standing with them on any issue. When one is on the same side as Joe Biden, every lefty politician in the country, the media, and a even deep state pretend conservatives... it ought to make alarm bells go off in your brain.

The majority of those here calling anyone who questions the narrative vile names like Puty lover, and using stupid terms like Ruzzians, etc... are likely just idiots. But I have no doubt that there are paid “influencers” among us also.

[BobL]

“But I have no doubt that there are paid “influencers” among us also.”

I agree, and one of the reasons being that, even with everything turning against Ukraine, even the WESTERN MEDIA, they still sound like a broken record, implying that Ukraine is virtually at the Gates of Moscow. People posting honestly here would either quit posting, or admit they were wrong - yet none of these Neocon Supporters have done so.

[Allegra]

Meanwhile here at Free Republic the Neocon Couch Potato War Hawks are standing with Biden, AOC and a bunch of cynical lefty and deep state politicians cheering on our team every day and having a fantastic time while our great country being destroyed... Look how happy that they are.

I think they want to take over this site. Their daily incessant leftist propaganda posting, complete with multiple replies to themselves to keep the forum cluttered with their nonsense makes it evident.

And they’re horrible little people, yipyapping and baring their vicious little teacup poodle teeth to those who stand up to them.

As I’ve said before, they are a nasty stain on this site.

[fireman15]

And they're horrible little people, yipyapping and baring their vicious little teacup poodle teeth to those who stand up to them.

That is a great characterization... Thanks you made my morning!