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To: Salohcin

There is absolutely no evidence of anything you claim in paragraph 1.

What Putin wanted was the implementation of the Minsk accords. He has said himself Western Ukraine would prefer Polish administration before they would ever accept Russian rule. So, you’re totally incorrect there. Do you deny Ukraine and Russia nearly had an agreement until Boris Johnson intervened?

Further, you don’t understand what is happening on the battlefield. Russia is moving slowly under an umbrella of ISR destroying everything in front of them and preserving their own forces.

The Ukrainians spent 8 years preparing the fortifications at Bakhmut and along that line. Those fortifications have been penetrated. If there’s a line behind that one it will be easier penetrated still.

The Ukrainians can’t match Russian artillery. They are out ranged, and they are out of shells. Russia fires 20000 rounds a day. While Ukraine is down to firing 1000. Russia launches as many shells in one day as we make in a month. And ISR plus drones are what is destroying tanks. So all the promised weaponry won’t make a difference. Unless we commit to going in ourselves regime change is coming to Ukraine.

Russia has been told through Western actions that they have no negotiating partner and Kyiv won’t stop until they are destroyed.


22 posted on 02/04/2023 7:29:29 AM PST by Toad of Toad Hall (time is short and getting shorter)
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To: Toad of Toad Hall
The Ukrainians spent 8 years preparing the fortifications at Bakhmut and along that line. Those fortifications have been penetrated. If there’s a line behind that one it will be easier penetrated still.

Concurring bump...and I've seen video of the Ukies digging trenches (by hand) west of Bakhmut, so their secondary line is rudimentary at best.

23 posted on 02/04/2023 7:39:11 AM PST by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
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To: Toad of Toad Hall

You apparently haven’t read Putin’s own statements about his war goals. Putin repeatedly has said that one of the purposes of the war is the “denazification” of Ukraine. As the Russians claim that Zelensky and his entire government are “Nazis”, how do you “denazify” the country WITHOUT regime change?


25 posted on 02/04/2023 7:56:01 AM PST by Salohcin
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To: Toad of Toad Hall

‘There is absolutely no evidence of anything you claim in paragraph 1.”

I think the Neocon Supporters are FAR BEYOND providing any backup to their claims.


34 posted on 02/04/2023 8:28:04 AM PST by BobL
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To: Toad of Toad Hall

Putin wants Minsk honored?! Oh my aching sides that is the most counterfactual thing I’ve read today.

If Putin wanted Minsk agreements honored, he wouldn’t have attempted assassinations in Ukraine over 15 years ago, he wouldn’t have pretended the “little green men” and Wagner had nothing to do with Russia, he wouldn’t have blackmailed Yanukovych in 2013, he would’ve sent peacekeepers into Crimea instead of annexing it, he would’ve pulled Wagner and the Kadyrovites out of eastern Ukraine, and he wouldn’t have made demands to NATO in 2021 to the effect of, “NATO must leave all of eastern Europe even if that renders them all defenceless against Russian aggression, or Russia will invade Ukraine in February and take Kyiv by force.”

Because... The first Accord signed in Minsk by Russia and Ukraine (both entirely cordially without any external coercion) was the Budapest Memorandum. It reinforced the Belovezha Accords, which in turn reinforced the Helsinki principles signed in 1975.

Pre-Putin Russia had already pledged to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and right of self-determination. The agreement said, in effect, no country must undermine those rights by attacking Ukraine econonomically, politically or military, AND the agreement made it abundantly clear that if any state attacked Ukraine in any of those ways, Ukraine had every right to call on the other Budapest signatories for support.

The UK still honors that agreement, the USA still honors that agreement, Yeltsin honored it, but Putin has been systematically violating it daily since his security forces attempted to assassinate the rival candidate to Yanukovych.

People who point out Ukraine had eight years to enforce a Minsk agreement bent in Russia’s favor rather forget that Russia has spent the better part of fifteen years violating an even more binding Minsk agreement which was ALSO set up in Russia’s favor.

If Ukraine is the frog, Putin is the scorpion. It doesn’t matter what Ukraine agrees to, or delivers, in relation to Minsk - Putin cannot help himself. Minsk prevents him having all the bits of Ukraine that he decides he wants, so he’ll be the one to violate it.

It’s in his nature.


48 posted on 02/04/2023 10:19:45 AM PST by MalPearce ("You see, but you do not observe". https://www.thefabulous.co/s/2uHEJdj)
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