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A Covid Vaccine Crossroads: You can oppose government mandates but still favor mass vaccination.
Wall Street Journal ^ | July 15, 2021 | WSJ Editorial Board

Posted on 07/18/2021 7:32:58 AM PDT by karpov

click here to read article


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To: karpov; Jane Long; Grampa Dave; SomeCallMeTim; cpdiii; logi_cal869; Salamander; metmom
This is a situation where the data can support/justify both pro- and anti-shot arguments.

The decline in case and fatalities since January coincided with the rollout of the shots. However, it can also be shown that this virus follows the seasonal/bad in the winter pattern of influenza, so correlation doesn't mean causality.

The Moderna trial had about 5 out of 14,000 test subjects coming down with COVID19 fourteen days after the second shot, vs 90 in the placebo group. The effect was strongest with people over 65. But....this was only after two weeks of observation - most approved vaccines are tested for 2-3 years. That's (in part) why these shots were released under an EUA.

The platform for these shots is messenger RNA, not the traditional dead virus shot. This platform, while tested before, has never been released for public consumption. Thus, the entire nation (planet) is part of a beta test.

Finally, the case fatality rate for the virus is about 1.8%, meaning 98.2% of those who get it, don't die. Furthermore, you odds of survival grow exponential from older to younger folks. But, that CFR is 20%+ if you're 80 or older (or higher if you're in a retirement home in NY).

Yes, there is always the risk of a kid infecting an older person, but let's be honest about the math. In fact, the data collection has been uneven (e.g. no consistent definition of a "case" and about 94% of fatalities had multiple comorbidities) and, frankly, the CDC's decision to stop tracking breakthrough infections (but not fatalities) and odd VAERS recording - which may simply be government ineptitude (or not) - doesn't inspire confidence.

Any sober analysis of this situation would lead smart people to conclude that it comes down to personal choice. Some people see the data and got the shots immediately. Others saw the data and decided to avoid it at all costs. This bug isn't Ebola which kills everyone but it is more lethal as you get older. The messenger RNA platform may be perfectly fine, or it could do heretofore nasty things after a year or two.

I've read multiple stories of people getting the shots and have lived happily ever after. I've read about (and know of) dreadful stories where "happily ever after" doesn't come. Even more problematic are stories of outbreaks that never get reported.

All of this should lead to a public policy of encouragement and fully-informed voluntary consent. The fact that we are getting a sales push is what's troubling. We didn't get this kind of product push for Obamacare.

And now we are getting govt-funded canvassers and maybe 1st Amendment breaches of text-message censorship. This seems designed to NOT help, but turn citizen against citizen, get someone killed, and facilitate a greater clampdown on civil liberties.

Why, all this almost make you think that was the plan all along...

21 posted on 07/18/2021 8:07:00 AM PDT by DoodleBob (Gravity's waiting period is about 9.8 m/s^2)
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To: karpov
Opposition Campaign in Slovakia on billboards.

Hands Off of Our Children!

Love it.

22 posted on 07/18/2021 8:07:34 AM PDT by NachOsten (Alea iacta est!)
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To: NachOsten

Slovakia is on my list for potential SHTF locations.


23 posted on 07/18/2021 8:08:18 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Rurudyne

Someone should develop a traditional “dead virus” type Covid vaccine to appeal to the remaining 1/3.


24 posted on 07/18/2021 8:09:43 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: karpov

Thank you for posting that link to the full article. I think the vaccines used in America are effective and as safe as vaccines generally are. But I think their use should be STRICTLY VOLUNTARY and I think ALL mandates (masks, vaccinations, etc) should not stand. The virus (including all variants) causing COVID-19 will (yes, WILL) run its course until herd immunity is reached.


25 posted on 07/18/2021 8:11:36 AM PDT by House Atreides
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To: Yardstick

Makes you wonder why they didn’t just do that from the beginning.


26 posted on 07/18/2021 8:12:13 AM PDT by marron
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To: fireman15

How many people got out of Jonestown?

Same mental problem.


27 posted on 07/18/2021 8:12:33 AM PDT by Empire_of_Liberty
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To: heavy metal

I had an older relative with advanced leukemia and pneumonia get it and within two days of staying at home, got over it.


28 posted on 07/18/2021 8:13:24 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: dfwgator
My primary.
A friend of mine has a great chateau there.

Great terrain for defense. On the hill with vineyards sloping down. Hotel and restaurant build inside....

29 posted on 07/18/2021 8:13:44 AM PDT by NachOsten (Alea iacta est!)
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To: Yardstick

But how would that appeal to the population control and transhumanist who seem at times to be controlling so much of the money behind these companies?


30 posted on 07/18/2021 8:13:46 AM PDT by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
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To: karpov
we have felt more comfortable going to restaurants and other places

Anyone who claims to be health conscious, yet still eats food prepared by a typical restaurant 'chef', in a typical restaurant kitchen, but unsanitary slugs, isn't to be taken seriously.

31 posted on 07/18/2021 8:14:26 AM PDT by JonPreston (Q: Never have so many, been so wrong, so often)
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To: Yardstick

The Chicoms have one. And, in the meantime, there’s always the airborne variety available at restaurants, bars, and your local Walmart free of charge. It has a lifetime guarantee. One way or the other.


32 posted on 07/18/2021 8:14:41 AM PDT by phoneman08 (qwiyrqweopigradfdz oncm,.dadfjl,dz )
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To: karpov

The article states “...nearly 90% of those 65 and older have received at least one dose. ...”

Then this horse shit is over.

Covid kills those over 78 years old by a numerical and statistical landslide.

All other age groups where Deaths are attributed to Covid are statistical anomalies. Not to their loved ones, of course.

End this nonsense now or admit the So Called vaccines are ineffective

And even then accept that the rest of us have real lives to live and our best efforts will not diminish or mitigate a thing


33 posted on 07/18/2021 8:15:06 AM PDT by Vendome (I've Gotta Be Me https://youtu.be/wH-pk2vZG2M)
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To: fireman15
In the fine print: The vaccine does not prevent one from contracting the flu, it only makes the symptoms less severe if one does contract the flu.
34 posted on 07/18/2021 8:15:38 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: karpov
Widespread inoculations have resulted in plunging cases, hospitalizations and deaths in recent months...

No, reducing cycles in the PCR “tests”, and changing back to normal standards for classifying cause of death have resulted in plunging cases, hospitalizations, and “COVID” deaths.

The entire “pandemic” was smoke and mirrors.

35 posted on 07/18/2021 8:16:20 AM PDT by Sicon ("All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." - G. Orwell)
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To: fireman15

Yep

The Spanish Flu took two years to run its course before dying out itself and there were no supposed vaccines then

This thing ended a long time ago...


36 posted on 07/18/2021 8:18:26 AM PDT by Vendome (I've Gotta Be Me https://youtu.be/wH-pk2vZG2M)
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To: Empire_of_Liberty
How many people got out of Jonestown?

Many people who were refusing to drink the grape Flavor Aid were shot. Which is basically what the radical left would do to any one refusing to be injected with the experimental vaccines if given the chance.


37 posted on 07/18/2021 8:20:26 AM PDT by fireman15
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To: Uncle Miltie

hear hear


38 posted on 07/18/2021 8:20:26 AM PDT by Irenic ( )
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To: Uncle Miltie
"Yet the question now is what to do about the third of Americans who haven’t been vaccinated,"

Think of the arrogance the author needed to write that statement.

39 posted on 07/18/2021 8:23:48 AM PDT by Captain Walker ("The side that has Truth gets Humor as a bonus.")
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To: Lurkinanloomin

Monkeying with people’s genetic material to produce other genetic material to fake out your immune system isn’t a vaccine?

< / genetic engineering experiment >


40 posted on 07/18/2021 8:25:00 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Critical Race Theory: black behavior is so bad it must be whitey's fault.)
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