[Travis McGee]

NO. We either capture the GOP, or we lose totally.

Teddy Roosevelt started the Bull Moose party as an offshoot of the Republican party.

The radical progressive Democrat Woodrow Wilson won 400 electoral votes with only 40% of the popular vote, because of the split among the Republicans and the Bull Moose party.

Abe Lincoln won the same way, in a 4-party split.

Not to mention John Anderson, Ross Perot, etc.

It’s a recipe for failure.

[RushIsMyTeddyBear]

I agree.

[brownsfan]

“NO. We either capture the GOP, or we lose totally.”

The GOP is a dead husk. The GOP is Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham.

Sometimes the cancer is too far gone to save the patient.

If we stay with the GOP we lose, and even when we win we still lose, because... Mitch and Lindsey and their ilk.

So, in reality, we have nothing to lose.

[circlecity]

“It’s a recipe for failure.”

And how is that any worse from what we have now?

[CodeToad]

“NO. We either capture the GOP, or we lose totally.”

For four years and more we found the GOP is far too corrupted at the national and State levels. At some point, you have to assume the old rust bucket ain’t salvageable.

[CodeToad]

“Abe Lincoln won the same way”

Abe won with the new Republican party. The Whigs were just too far gone to save.

[Principled]

Why keep or attempt to keep the republicans as our representatives if they don’t represent us?

The democrats don’t represent us either of course.

But if the republicans getting destroyed moves us closer to having a party that actually represents us, I’m in.

If continuing to support republicans has as its cost that no part represents me, i’m not going to continue to support the republicans.

The “price” of this rebellion would be a democrat government for a period. I’m not convinced the cost of a republican government would be much better.

I’m all in. Let the republicans lose their asses.

[Boogieman]

“It’s a recipe for failure.”

It’s also a recipe for failure to continue voting for a party that is controlled by enemy collaborators.

[larrytown]

Bingo!

No more Woodrow Wilsons.

[Mr. N. Wolfe]

Republican party: We lie to you and we are never going to represent you in Washington D.C.

Republican constituent: That’s outrageous!

Republican party: Vote for us.

Republican constituent: OK.

[hcmama]

It might make people feel good, but it would be a complete disaster.

[StAnDeliver]

"We either capture the GOP, or we lose totally."

And most of these essential GOP state conventions are on for 2021.

Here's an example, while everyone's attentions were explicitly drawn elsewhere, last weekend even CraPo noted Virginia GOP is trying to screw over the Trump primary candidate.

"Some of that calculus has been scrambled this time, with a Trumpian candidate, state Sen. Amanda F. Chase (Chesterfield), staunchly opposed to a convention because she says party leaders would rig it against her.

Another all-but-declared contender — Glenn Youngkin, a former Carlyle Group executive whose enormous wealth would be a bigger advantage in a primary — also appears to be part of the equation, with some Youngkin foes pushing for a convention."

[Sans-Culotte]

NO. We either capture the GOP, or we lose totally.

If the GOP is actually on board with impeaching/convicting Trump, then "winning" with the GOP is the same as losing. What if Trump had won, and was then thrown out by the 'rats and the GOP quislings?

And the Teddy Roosevelt example is a poor one. TR was an egotist and wanted the GOP to become more "progressive". It was a destructive act which sabotaged his own party and President Taft.

[nathanbedford]

Whether the play is to reform or repudiate the Republican Party, whatever is done must be done quickly.

The institutional forces arrayed against conservatism today are so daunting that either path holds dubious promise but there is no better time than now to take the chance. We hold no part of the government, indeed we hold virtually no institution across the country apart from some hapless statehouses and practically no civilian institution.

Our weakness, however, can be seen as our strength. For decades we have held our noses and voted for Rinos out of fear of Democrat dominance. Well, now that dominance is now fully upon us with a vengeance and we have much less to lose by culling the heard.

If we wait the weight of institutions arrayed against us will prevail and we will lose more than a chance to reform our political party, we will lose our liberty to aggressive progressives and very likely our country to the Chinese.

The practical path and therefore the preferred path would be to reform the Republican Party. I fear that is but an illusory hope because the establishment is broad and deep and very strong. As you point out, splinter parties are really suicide excursions because of the winner take all nature of our political architecture. Yet it succeeded against the Whigs but there they had the supreme moral cause: anti-slavery

To repudiate the Republican Party and form a new one, whether under Trump or without him, is a very chancy, expensive and long-term proposition. Nevertheless, that seems to be the sentiment on this board with which I reluctantly agree. The hope of reform seems to be illusory, witness the ruse written by Karl Rove in the Wall Street Journal appearing today.

. There are risks to either path but one must be chosen.

[Arlis]

Total truth in this post.

Problem is, true conservatives are not political animals, and the GOP is ruled and controlled by political animals like McConnell.

Not wanting to be negative, but political machines are ruled by political animals for they are of the same nature, the same essence. Political animals care more about power and control than they do about TRUTH. The ends justifies the means and the means IS ALWAYS COMPROMISE.

So I see no way those who will not compromise on TRUTH can take control of a group ruled by power and compromise. We can influence, yes - as the Tea Party did.

But we can never rule or control, for we are not of the same essence as those who rule - and who will always rule - a political party.

Please - anyone show me that I’m wrong.

[Cboldt]

I see it like threats of violence. Everything should be on the table. If you proimise to NEVER put up a fight, no matter what; and you actually act that way, you will lose, 100% of the time. Same with “walk away.” It has to be a REAL threat, not an idle one.

I agree that it’s perhaps easier to convert the GOP, but it may be impossible.

[Article10]

Regardless if there’s a new party or we supposedly “capture” the republicant party.. its the money and lobbyists that matter.. DC is just too corrupt . Trump was a bandaid on a severed artery.

By pass and impose..

Focus should be on State Capitols and repealing the 17th Amendment via constitutional convention.

The rest will sort out when the check and balance on the Senate is restored.

[Arlis]

Interesting point here: Even we here at FR look to be divided fairly evenly between those who say NO to a new party and those who say YES to a new party.

That alone is to me a clear indication that a new party cannot succeed.

I’ll also note that I’ve seen nothing DIVIDE conservatives more than what has happened since Nov. 3rd, 2020. Our enemy has been very successful in dividing us since the election, proving there is no way we can unite under a new name.

BTW, I’ve never registered as a Republican - always independent. I cannot identify with a group that almost half the time represents the opposite of what I believe. Though I have worked locally for conservative Republican candidates.

[Kazan]

There is no comparison what Roosevelt did and what Trump could do.

Roosevelt served two terms and retired, groomed and endorsed his successor, William Taft who won in 1908, and then tried to form the Bull Moose party in 1912. He did so after losing the Republican nomination in 1912. There was no way a majority of Republicans were going to abandon an incumbent President.

Trump has 75% of the party behind him and coming off an election where he got more votes than any incumbent President in history. He's in a much better position than Roosevelt was in 2012.