'No friends but the mountains': History repeats itself with latest US betrayal of Kurds

Middle East Eye ^ | 7 October 2019 | Alex MacDonald

[DoughtyOne]

The first question in any foreign policy needs to be "what does it do for US?"

Then why are you writing this response. The Kurds were good allies in he dust ups in the area around where they lived. They took a large role in moping up ISIS in the area.

That was a big help to the West, not just the region.

ISIS had hoped to take over Iraq and much more. Fail, and partly because of the efforts of the Kurds who didn't even have to be asked.

Since WWI we have spilled our blood and emptied our coffers for everyone else. All of our friends around the world are our friends until we ask something of them. The Kurds too.

They too, love us until they don’t.

Please remind me of the time the Kurds went againt U. S. Policy in the region and attacked U. S. Troops. Thanks in advance.

All of "youse guys" who think we ought to get all up in the Turks faces- the enlistment age for the Army is 42. If of age, go to it. If over, then send your sons. Otherwise you are full of crap.

Please provide the specific suggestion I made that said we had to be involved in a conflict. How many troops did I say had to be placed there to defend the Kurds? Zero or more than zero?

And yes, I have children in uniform. I used to swear them in at re-enlistment/commissioning,, no longer. I ain’t like that no more.

Please don't mention your kids in uniform when acting like I said things I didn't and advocated for things I didn't. Dishonor yourself on your own and leave your kids out of it.

The United States can provide help through giving the Kurds the means to defend themselves. They mix it up right nice. They don't need us. Isn't that the type of people we want to support?

[60Gunner]

The horseshit is leaving US soldiers on the Kurdish side and having US bases in Turkey.

Absolutely! I agree completely!

However, rather than saddle Israel with the problem (which she never started and was never hers at any point), I maintain that this is Europe's responsibility and Europe's alone. And they're too busy with their climate virtue-signaling mutual masturbatory society to fix they problem that THEY have allowed to fester for hundreds of years.

I am tired of the US tossing Erdogan's salad while we put our troops in the sights of Turkish weapons.

[Manly Warrior]

Sorry I used your post as a general platform to share my viewpoint.

Nothing in my comment was meant to inflame your pancreas.

[1Old Pro]

Apples and Oranges, but nice try.

[huldah1776]

I was Just wondering if this isn’t another ploy of the President’s to get Turdey to truly out itself and get KICKED OUT of NATO? I haven’t believed a lot of what the President says at first (art of the deal) but the Kurds have an emo hold on me.

[huldah1776]

Globalists, deep state, fiery crash. Yes, my place of peace except it won’t happen until the Return of the Great King. Then they ALL bite the dust.

[whitemale]

Have you been there? Do you have personal knowledge of the complex interactions of the area? Are you surrounded by learned people that do have an understanding?
Or, are you reacting in a mythos thinking manner to a series of talking points?
I suggest VSGDJT has much better input and logos strategical thinking than any of us. He needs our support.

[huldah1776]

Guess I am not the only one who reacted.

“The White House’s Sunday night announcement reportedly “shocked” and “completely blindsided” top Pentagon officials and triggered outrage from both sides of the aisle.

Many GOP lawmakers who have stood lockstep with the president on almost every other issue have expressed concern that the withdrawal could lead to the genocide of the U.S.’ Kurdish allies and a return to power of the Islamic State in the region.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/pat-robertson-trump-syria

[DoughtyOne]

All of "youse guys" who think we ought to get all up in the Turks faces- the enlistment age for the Army is 42. If of age, go to it. If over, then send your sons. Otherwise you are full of crap.

Sorry I used your post as a general platform to share my viewpoint.

Nothing in my comment was meant to inflame your pancreas.

Not quite buying all of that, but thanks.

[PIF]

Apples and Oranges, but nice try.

---

Think so, eh? Iran declared war on the US in 1979 and has been trying to kill US since. When they get their nukes and the means to deliver they wlli use it - NYC being the #1 target. US retaliation would be seen as the blessing to bring the 12th Imam out of the Well in climbed into back in the 7th century and on to the total extermination of all humans - or as they see it, bringing everyone to Paradise.

But lets just wait because Islam is a religion of peace and they will come to their senses and reform ...

Its not worth bothering with ... and the same could have been said for the the Germans and the Japanese back in the 40s. Let them fight it out - its not our problem and not worth a single US soldier’s death.

[tallyhoe]

I already fought in a war.. Vietnam!

[MrEdd]

I already fought one too.
You want people in a neverending war you’re not done.
You weren’t a pussy once, so don’t be one now. Get your ass over there and fight that futile war you are demanding.

I’m never for limited war. I’m not for nation building in the middle east. You can’t fix the middle east without stamping out Islam and America doesn’t have the stomach for that. And that is the entire genesis of my post.

You are demanding a useless action that has no possible net gain.

You say you weren’t bright enough to learn about the useless waste of limited wars so far, so get your irresponsible ass over to Syria to fight the Turks and get you some more until the lesson sinks in.

The fact that you are actually willing to see Americans fighting the Turks in Syria without demanding that we first kick them out of NATO and eject them from Cyprus tells me everything I will ever need to know about the intellectual soundness of your demand.

I’m all for kicking the Turks ass into the stone age if Congress declares war and we go in with overwhelming force to stomp the crap out of them and leave them in the kind of rubble Europe was largely in by 1945. Short of a declared war? Hell no.

Fight this piddly limited crap?

You want it you go. No matter how old you are, and no matter how slow of a learner you are.

[MrEdd]

See post 72, jackass.

It applies in full to you, because you have earned it in every way.

I have no problem with selling arms to the Kurds, and never indicated that I did. But many of them are communists and those are only allies as long as neccessary.

Stalin was our ally when we were fighting the Germans.
Afterward, not so much.
I think thats a good model to follow and (although you disparage me for continuing after that example) I have no shame about leaving communists to their own devices.

[Karliner]

I agree. I’m tired of all the ME madness and lost blood and treasure. It’d been tribal since the beginning. No one can reign these people in. I doubt the EU will do a thing. That leaves shit vs sunni, Syria, Kurds, Turkey, Israel, Saudi’s, and the rest to have their vengeance.

[tallyhoe]

So you think maybe Pelosi might declare a war? Not in my lifetime or yours.. Only President Trump can get us into a war.. Vietnam was a police action.. Lots of Comrades died on the battlefield in Vietnam.. Our Military is so much better now and soon we won’t have our men in battle on the field they will use robots.. We have Pilot less fighters. soon our men will do it all by remote locations..

[MrEdd]

No.
I think every snot faced idiot who wants people to die in a limited war which by design needs to pack his ass up and go fight that useless war.

I clearly don’t think Congress will authorize an actual war, which means enough force won’t be applied to Turkey to accomplish anything.

And what kind of bloodthirsty buffoon justifies sending people to die in a useless non-cause today by insisting that we can kill people tomorrow from home using robots.

Get your effing ass over to Syria you hypocritical old shitbird. You want this war, and you admit that you know full well that enough force won’t be committed to acomplish anything.

Somehow you seem to have been exposed to McNamara’s piecemeal casualties until you think that’s a jolly good idea, and you (by your posts) are bent on sending today’s young men off to repeat the damned farce.

Eff that.

[tallyhoe]

Have you a mental problem?

[DoughtyOne]

I already fought one too.

You want people in a neverending war you’re not done.

You weren’t a pussy once, so don’t be one now. Get your ass over there and fight that futile war you are demanding.

I’m never for limited war. I’m not for nation building in the middle east. You can’t fix the middle east without stamping out Islam and America doesn’t have the stomach for that. And that is the entire genesis of my post.

You are demanding a useless action that has no possible net gain.

You say you weren’t bright enough to learn about the useless waste of limited wars so far, so get your irresponsible ass over to Syria to fight the Turks and get you some more until the lesson sinks in.

The fact that you are actually willing to see Americans fighting the Turks in Syria without demanding that we first kick them out of NATO and eject them from Cyprus tells me everything I will ever need to know about the intellectual soundness of your demand.

I’m all for kicking the Turks ass into the stone age if Congress declares war and we go in with overwhelming force to stomp the crap out of them and leave them in the kind of rubble Europe was largely in by 1945. Short of a declared war? Hell no.

Fight this piddly limited crap?

You want it you go. No matter how old you are, and no matter how slow of a learner you are.

- - - - -

This is the post you wanted me to review, since as you said it applied to me also.  That part in blue, that's actually the only thing that might have had relevence to me, if I had said I wanted troops left in Kurdistan.

Unfortunately for you, I didn't.

You have gone postal several times with me now, and evidently based on a false premise.

- - - - -

I already fought one too.

Good.  I respect that.  Kudos to you.

You want people in a neverending war you’re not done.

Never said or intimated anything remotely close to this, or even close to inferring this.

You weren’t a pussy once, so don’t be one now. Get your ass over there and fight that futile war you are demanding.

I did not suggest any troops be required to fight there, so your attempt at a put-down is rather sad.

I’m never for limited war. I’m not for nation building in the middle east. You can’t fix the middle east without stamping out Islam and America doesn’t have the stomach for that. And that is the entire genesis of my post.

Ah, not my post.  I'm curious how you think this has any relevance to something I stated..

You are demanding a useless action that has no possible net gain.

I advocated for helping the Kurds with arms so they could defend themselves successfully.  That is not a useless action, and it does allow a people who fought with us, to defend themselves.  An ally getting a net gain, is a net gain for us as well.

You say you weren’t bright enough to learn about the useless waste of limited wars so far, so get your irresponsible ass over to Syria to fight the Turks and get you some more until the lesson sinks in.

Once again, this has no bearing on anything I stated in my comments here.  You're obviously upset, but I think you've adopted an impression that isn't based on reality, at least with regard to my posts on this thread.

The fact that you are actually willing to see Americans fighting the Turks in Syria without demanding that we first kick them out of NATO and eject them from Cyprus tells me everything I will ever need to know about the intellectual soundness of your demand.

Where in the sam hell did you get te idea I needed to have that said to me?  Nothing I have said on this thread came even close to justifying that response to me.

I’m all for kicking the Turks ass into the stone age if Congress declares war and we go in with overwhelming force to stomp the crap out of them and leave them in the kind of rubble Europe was largely in by 1945. Short of a declared war? Hell no.

Where in the sam hell did you get te idea I needed to have that said to me?  Nothing I have said on this thread came even close to justifying that response to me.

Fight this piddly limited crap?

Infers an argument or statment had been made that would justify this response.  Nope...

You want it you go. No matter how old you are, and no matter how slow of a learner you are.

Once again, this comment has no relevence to anything said in my posts.

Other than nothing here having any relevence to something I said in my posts, a really great tirade.

[MrEdd]

Have you a God complex?

Or are even you so unable to come up with even a tiny shred of morally plausible defense for what you demanded (after seeing it analyzed) that you have nothing left other that to toss out that pathetic rejoinder?

Do explain how sending a skeleton force to war with a force to war against an enemy who can retreat a short way to refuges you refuse to allow to be attacked accomplishes aything.

So far, your position is that oppposing throwing men’s lives away for no gain like that has been to suggest that opposition is a mental disorder and we really need to send American’s to die in orders to save communist Kurds...even though the force we are talking about is too limited to accomplish anything.

Get your ass over there. Show us all how its done. Achieve your great...how is that little force with its rules of engagement keeping out of Turkey anyway going to achieve anything again.

Get the eff over there your damned self.

When actual war against Turkey, backed by Congressional declaration is on the table, I’m in. Your death for nothing shit you need to go do yourself.

[DoughtyOne]

See post 72, jackass.

It applies in full to you, because you have earned it in every way.

I responded to post 72 here.  It addressed nothing I had said on this thread.  I had thus not earned any of your diatribe there.  You and others are free to read it and see how it explained the stance I am taking here.

I have no problem with selling arms to the Kurds, and never indicated that I did. But many of them are communists and those are only allies as long as neccessary.

Then in truth, we don't have a disagreement on this topic.  Are you aware of that?

Stalin was our ally when we were fighting the Germans.

Afterward, not so much.

I think thats a good model to follow and (although you disparage me for continuing after that example) I have no shame about leaving communists to their own devices.

The Kurds were one of our allies in the Iraq War, and even helped cover our "friendlies" flank in the dust up in Syria.  (A campaign I never approved of...)

I don't see the Kurds being a Soviet Union Level threat.  They have had gas used on them by Iraq.  Syria opposes them.  Turkey opposes them.  They are frequently under threat of military action against them.

I have advocated we give them enough arms, the level of which they can defend themselves.  In your comments above in red, you seem to agree with that.  Whether you do or not, that's still my stance, and I don't think it's a stance that has warranted your negative posts to me.