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Why Does The Shroud of Turin Still Exist?
Townhall.com ^ | July 28, 2019 | Myrah Kahn Adams

Posted on 07/28/2019 6:02:04 AM PDT by Kaslin

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To: Elsie
(I wonder what Paul's recommened punishment for a man to have long hair??

I can tell you what my dad's was!

He must have scared my hair pretty good because most of it is gone now! LOL!

501 posted on 07/30/2019 6:27:47 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mom MD

+1


502 posted on 07/30/2019 6:28:10 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: grey_whiskers
I'm not a parrot. (I'm an adult convert.) I just copied you in as one who i saw involved in the debate, and you are not a typical RC parrot.

The answer is the same as the basis for Sola Scriptura: faith.

Yet "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Romans 10:17) And as said, God manifestly made writing His most-reliable means of authoritative preservation. And as abundantly evidenced , as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. Thus the veracity of even apostolic oral preaching could be subject to testing by Scripture, (Acts 17:11) and not vice versa.

That's over simplified. And it sounds like the Phariseeical tactic of forcing a false dichotomy, then demanding "answer yes or no."

Well, that seems to be the argument behind the polemical assertion of "we gave you the Bible" in response to those who use it to counter their self-proclaimed one true church.

The interesting thing, is that in reading the lives of several different saints, often they received direct revelations from God, and *strong* impressions, causing great agony if not followed, to pray on certain topics.

Private revelation, from God or not, is not the issue here.

Often the superiors spent *years* deliberately ordering them to refrain from these prayers. And yet, the Spirit told them to obey their superiors, at the cost of great anguish to themselves.

Regardless of the claim to be from the Spirit, obedience to man is always conditional upon obedience to God, but the test of that must be something established as being of God. And Scripture is the only substantive body of inspired Truth.

Sometimes I think a lot of the Protestant churches are like that; "Gee God, you're too slow on fixing all these problems, so we're gonna do it" and that has morphed (over time) into "well, I felt it was the right thing, so I went and did it. You can't judge me!"

Too often that is the recourse. However, in principle there is a place for dissent. The church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)

And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved by Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

And which is certainly not opposed to magisterial authority, but the authority of the NT church was under men of supreme Scriptural integrity "not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. (2 Co. 4:2) "in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God..." (2 Co. 6:4)

Which is what is lacking today. Catholicism presumes too much of an office, and too little of Scripture, the only substantive body of Truth that is affirmed to be wholly inspired of God, and in which she is substantially absent and contrary to , while evangelicalism presumes too much of Scripture as far as practical authority is concerned, and too little of the magisterial office established thereby. The rest of Protestantism fails more. And both (and I) fail of the degree of holiness and faith the prima NT church exampled needed for the church of the living God to manifest itself as being so, and as grounded in and supporting the Truth. Time for greater repentance.

503 posted on 07/30/2019 6:30:16 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Iscool
So the true Catholic Church hasn't existed since the 60's??? Then why do you keep going???


504 posted on 07/30/2019 6:32:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: grey_whiskers; ealgeone
You are not speaking the truth in love; and your goal is not to build up. You're trolling.

Nobody is trolling just because they are saying something you don't like or you disagree with.

IN addition, both your charges are pretty serious ones.

Prove that he's not speaking the truth in love and give us examples of where he's trolling.

Show us post numbers and prove that he did not back up his comments.

505 posted on 07/30/2019 6:32:46 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: grey_whiskers
Or Mary can pray for you if you ask her. Just like the widow.

Mary is DEAD; just like the widow.

506 posted on 07/30/2019 6:33:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Sounds like there are well over a BILLION folks like that too!

SMH...


507 posted on 07/30/2019 6:34:29 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Like Enoch, Noah, & Lot, the True Church will soon be removed & then destruction comes forth.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Equally strong is the whole process of the writing, copying, collection, verification, canonization, preservation, dissemination --- the historically verifiable, step-by-step chain of custody --- which has through nigh unto 100 generations conveyed the Scriptures to us, from the earliest (about 45 AD) until this very day.

So; I guess that Rome DOES have the originals in a vault in the Vatican!

How cool is THAT!!!?

508 posted on 07/30/2019 6:34:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I know and yes.

There was not much integrity in that was there?


509 posted on 07/30/2019 6:35:36 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: vladimir998
Every Christian in the forum knows someone who did NOT come to know “that the claims of Christ are true” merely because of another person’s “changed life”.

I DO???

510 posted on 07/30/2019 6:36:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie; Roman_War_Criminal
... you claim you need a ‘higher authority figure’ to interpret it for you in order to understand,...

I'd hate to admit that I was that dumb.

Pure gold, Elsie.

511 posted on 07/30/2019 6:36:56 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
(e.g. Mary says, "Do whatever He tells you")

Rome says, "It's ok if you do the things that an apparition tells you."

512 posted on 07/30/2019 6:37:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: grey_whiskers

Were these passages twisty and little before you came upon them?


513 posted on 07/30/2019 6:38:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom

Yep. Cause Saul of Tarsus converting to St. Paul did such a bang-up job on converting his fellow Jews.


514 posted on 07/30/2019 6:39:40 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change with out notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

So; the Scripture that Rome has given us IS adequate to get a person saved and on to heaven.

Thanks.


515 posted on 07/30/2019 6:39:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: grey_whiskers
"to obey is better than sacrifice"

This far into the thread and there is STILL some low hanging fruit to be picked:

Call no man father.


516 posted on 07/30/2019 6:42:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212

I’m at work now. You at least are engaging in good faith.
No more till tonight, if then (household chores/ other correspondents).


517 posted on 07/30/2019 6:42:54 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change with out notice.)
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To: baldisbeautiful
Something has to give.

Either your tagline or THIS:

Please look behind the veil of whatever website provided these quotes and learn about True devotion to Mary.

518 posted on 07/30/2019 6:44:47 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Yes, it IS OK if if is not contrary to faith and morals.

If an apparition (or anyone) tells you, "Turn away from your sins and pray for God's mercy," I think you should do it.

If an apparition tells you, "Do whatever you want, God's cool with that," I would strongly advise against it.

519 posted on 07/30/2019 6:45:04 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("For peace within your gates, speak truth and judge with sound judgment." - Zechariah 8:16)
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To: Elsie

Who told you that?


520 posted on 07/30/2019 6:45:49 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("For peace within your gates, speak truth and judge with sound judgment." - Zechariah 8:16)
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