Why Does The Shroud of Turin Still Exist?

Townhall.com ^ | July 28, 2019 | Myrah Kahn Adams

[Kaslin]

In an imaginary “ranking” of Christian topics that elicit the most fervent discussions, Jesus Christ is No. 1. But near the top is the Shroud of Turin — believed by millions of Christians to be the authentic burial cloth of Jesus. This “ranking” was inspired by you — Townhall readers who wrote over 500 impassioned comments in response to my July 21 piece, “Shroud of Turin: New Test Concludes 1988 ‘Medieval Hoax’ Dating Was a Fraud.”

I purposely read all your comments to gain insight into my role as an adviser and fundraiser for a groundbreaking exhibition about the Shroud of Turin at the Museum of the Bible in Washington D.C. This spectacular museum, among the largest and highest rated in the city, is located only three blocks from the Capitol. And just prior to the January 20, 2021, presidential inauguration is when this high-tech Shroud exhibit is scheduled to open.

Threaded throughout hundreds of your responses about all aspects of the Shroud was one overarching theme summarized by these three comments:

 “Anyone who requires physical evidence to underpin their faith doesn’t understand the concept of faith.”

“JESUS CHRIST died for all. HE is what is important. Making such a fuss about this piece of cloth is a distraction from HIS work of SALVATION.”

“I respectfully submit that the only ‘relic’ which really matters is the one which was left us on that first Easter morning: The tomb is empty! He is Risen! He is Risen indeed! Alleluia!”

Of course, “He is Risen” is also the foundation of my Christian faith, (made slightly more complicated by having been born Jewish). But I feel compelled to discuss and explore the comment that reads in part, “…such a fuss about this piece of cloth...”

And my response is simple: The Shroud of Turin exists because HE exists. An answer that echoes what God said to Moses, “I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you” (Exodus 3:14).

Thus, the existence of the Shroud of Turin raises two questions that I will attempt to address: First, what exactly is the Shroud? And second, a deeper dive into “Why does the cloth exist?”

The Shroud of Turin is a 14.5-by-3.5-foot linen cloth with a linear front to back mirror image of a crucified man. The Shroud has the distinction of being the most studied artifact in the world, yet the cloth’s numerous mysteries remained unexplained by modern science.

At this moment the Shroud lies in a fireproof box in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, as it has continuously since 1578. (But secretly relocated between 1939 and 1946 when Italian authorities feared Hitler was seeking possession.)

Dating the Shroud has been controversial and the subject of my July 21 piece.

Among Shroud historians, there is no dispute that in 1352, over 200 years before the Shroud was housed in Turin, Geoffrey DeCharney displayed the cloth in Lirey, France marking the beginning of the Shroud’s documented "modern" dating.

There is also much circumstantial Shroud evidence through art, artifacts, and coins that pre-dates 1352. Moreover, scientifically verified botanical evidence found on the cloth in the form of pollen, dust, flowers, and even the weave and type of linen traces the Shroud back to first-century Jerusalem.

The cloth with its mysterious properties has survived wars, invasions and the ravages of time including numerous fires — most recently in 1997 at its home cathedral in Turin.

Most harrowing was the 1532 fire in Chambéry, France. Miraculously the entire cloth was not destroyed but left those distinctive linear markings along both sides of the Shroud that we see today. Hard to imagine, but the linen cloth was stored in a silver box, folded in 48 layers, when drops of molten silver burned through the cloth’s outer folded edges.

The point is, against all the odds, the Shroud exists. And, as stated earlier, because He exists. There is also a significant Bible-based reason found in the Gospel of John known as “Doubting Thomas” (John 20:24-31).

But first, a “guest” who will explain this passage needs a proper introduction:

It turns out that the many Townhall readers who commented about not needing the Shroud’s “physical evidence to underpin their faith,” represent a large swath of Christian believers. I learned this when asking Russ Breault— my fellow Shroud exhibit team colleague, and a world-renowned Shroud expert and speaker — if he had experienced similar attitudes after over 30 years of hosting his popular “Shroud Encounters” to sell-out crowds.

Breault replied: 

“I get that statement all the time!  When someone says, ‘I don't need the Shroud for my faith,’ I usually say, ‘That is fantastic!  But that doesn't mean the Shroud was not meant for someone else.’ ”

Breault continued:   “In the Doubting Thomas story, Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who ‘believe yet have not seen,’ but Jesus did not condemn Thomas for his unbelief. In fact, a week after the Resurrection, Jesus appeared a second time, and the first person he spoke to was Thomas, who was not there to witness Jesus’ first appearance. Jesus then quotes Thomas' words back to him, ‘Thomas, thrust your hand into my side and place your fingers into my nail wounds and be not faithless but believe.’

At this point, Thomas — forever known as "Doubting Thomas" — makes the strongest profession of faith in the New Testament saying, "My Lord and my God."  Then Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who can believe without seeing.  So we are blessed if we can believe without seeing, but we are not cursed if we can't get there without some additional evidence. 

Therefore, perhaps the Shroud is a silent witness to the world offering all of humanity the same opportunity Jesus gave to Thomas. In some proverbial sense by looking at the Shroud, we too can thrust our hand into His side and place our fingers into His nail wound and find our faith in the process.”  

Thank you, Russ!  And now my final thoughts for Townhall commenters.

If blessed with great faith, you are free to ignore or downplay the image on the Shroud showing Christ’s great suffering and victory over death. Yet, take comfort in knowing that the Shroud is there to supplement or reinforce the faith of others while potentially witnessing to the ever-increasing number of Doubting Thomases found throughout the world.  

In the end, I believe that the Shroud exists as proof of God’s greatest gift to mankind —the Lord Jesus Christ — who lives and reigns forever and ever. Alleluia! 

(Now, let the comments begin!)

[Elsie]

Do you contradict Peter, then?

Would that be a worse SIN than contradicting Jesus when He said, "Call no man father."?

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Obey them popes!!!

 

 

2 Peter 1:3-4  (ESV)

³ His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to^[a] his own glory and excellence,^{[b] 4} by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

 

 

Looks like ol' Pete kinda cut the legs out from any FUTURE revelations and teachings  that would appear in the future as being NECESSARY.

[Elsie]

Or, God is doing this in sheer kindness, to accommodate our human way of knowing.

With 'Mary' helping out as much as possible.

[Elsie]

Counterexample 1:Lucifer (mis)quoting Scripture to Jesus.

Constant example N: ELSIE quoting a certain Scripture to Catholics.

Call no man father.

[Elsie]

Of their own they are nothing. But they conduct Grace: not “intrinsically” but because God likes to find more ways to extend Mercy.

And if you do NOT believe this; then El Cucuy will get you!

[Elsie]

The things you Catholics sometimes come up with to explain Rome’s teachings are SHOCKING!

[ealgeone]

What proof then do you have of its authenticity?

The early church, guided by the Spirit, recognized the books that were authentic.

What guarantee do you have your translation’s accuracy?

We can verify the accuracy of the translation by studying the Greek and Hebrew and comparing to the copies we have available.

Do you subordinate your judgment and interpretations to that of the Church?

No. The believer in Christ is guided by the Holy Spirit in these matters.

However, the Roman Catholic is guided by the church which puts them at a serious disadvantage.

Why? Rome has only dogmatically defined a very small number of verses for the members leaving the lay Roman Catholic without an understanding of the undefined passages.

Bible Verses Defined by the Catholic Church

I don’t know if the Church has ever provided a definitive list of verses it has definitively defined, or dogmatically interpreted. These are three lists that others have collected and I think it about covers it. If anyone finds more info on this, please let me know at sray@rc.net. First List:

1. Romans 5:12 ("By one man sin entered into this world") refers to original sin.

2. I Corinthians 4:7 ("What hast thou that thou hast not received") proves divine grace to be a sheer gift of God.

3. Isaiah 7:14 ("Behold a virgin shall be with child, etc.") must be regarded as prophetic of a Redeemer to come.

4. Genesis 3:15 ("I will put enmity between thee and the woman"), and Luke 1:28 ("Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee") contain at least implicitly the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

5. Philippians 2:6 ("Christ Jesus, being in the form of God, did not prize being equal with God, etc.") refers to the existence of the person of Christ as the Second Divine Person of the Holy Trinity before He became man in the Incarnation.

6. Matthew 16:16-19 ("Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church") and John 21:15-17 ("Feed my lambs . . . Feed my sheep") contain the doctrine of Papal Supremacy.

7. Luke 22:32 ("I have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not and do thou . . . confirm thy brethren") must be interpreted as providing a basis for the doctrine of Papal Infallibility.

8. John 3:5 ("Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God") shows the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism with water.

9. Luke 22:19 and I Corinthians 11:24, recording our Lord's words at the Last Supper: "Do this for a commemoration of me", indicate the institution of the Sacrament of Holy Orders, the apostles being ordained as priests to offer the Sacrifice of the Mass or Holy Eucharist.

10. Matthew 26:26-28; Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:19-20; I Corinthians 11:23-29, demand the literal and not merely a symbolical interpretation of our Lord's words at the Last Supper: "This is my body," "This is my blood," so that we must hold they teach the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist or Blessed Sacrament.

11. Malachi 1:11 ("From the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles; and in every place there is sacrifice") is a prediction of the Sacrifice of the Mass.

12. John 6:54-57 ("unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood") does not require Communion in both kinds instead of under the form of bread only.

13. Matthew 18:18 ("Whatsoever you shall loose upon earth shall be loosed also in heaven") and John 20:23 ("Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them") prove the Sacrament of Penance and the power of priests to forgive sins in confession.

14. James 5:14 ("Is any man sick . . . let him bring in the priests of the Church . . . anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord") teaches the existence of the Sacrament of Extreme Unction.

15. Deuteronomy 6:5 and Matthew 22:37 ("Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and souls and mind and strength") do not require a love so spiritual and out of this world as to exclude all human emotional feelings and desires based on devotional sentiments.

(From "Questions People Ask About the Catholic Church" by Fr. Rumble p. 176-177).

Found here: http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2005/12/incarnation_dur.html

Second List:

[John 3:5] Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

[Luke 22:19] And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

[1 Cor 11:24] and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

[John 20:22-23] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

[Rom 5:12] Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned –

[James 5:14-15] Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

Third List:

The Church's Interpretation of Scripture

The Church has officially defined the interpretation for several passages of Scripture, but most people, Catholic or no, don't realize it. When they do know this is the case, even a well-informed Catholic cannot normally tell you which passages were authoritatively interpreted or what those interpretations were. What follows are all the authoratative interpretations of the Church has made of Scripture, taken from Heinrich Denzinger's Sources of Catholic Dogma, nos. 789, 858, 874, 913, 926, 949, 1822. Remember that the word "anathema" does not mean "condemned to hell," it means "formally excommunicated," and is used in explicit statements of what the Church most emphatically does not believe. Remember also that the authoritative interpretations of these passages do not deny the possibility of additional, non-contradictory interpretations. It means only that the referenced passages certainly carry the defined meanings. Some also ask why the Church does not formally define the meaning and interpretation of every line of Scripture. The Church teaches what is necessary for understanding - what She says needs to be said, nor is any teaching more than is needful. Just as it will take an eternity to plumb the infinite depths of God, so would it take an eternity to plumb the depths of His Word. These passages were defined against pernicous heresies. Every heresy is traceable to a mis-understanding of some combinatinon of these passages.

Rom 5:12 - Council of Trent, June 17, 1546, "Decree on Original Sin", section 2.

If anyone asserts that the transgression of Adam has harmed him alone and not his posterity, and that the sanctity and justice, received from God, which he lost, he has lost for himself alone and not for us also; or that he having been defiled by the sin of disobedience has transfused only death "and the punishments of the body into the whole human race, but not sin also, which is the death of the soul," let him be anathema, since he contradicts the Apostle who says: "By one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death, and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. [Rom 5:12]"

Jn 3:5 - Council of Trent, March 3, 1547, "Canons on the Sacrament of Baptism," canon 2.

If anyone shall say that real and natural water is not necessary for baptism, and on that account those words of our Lord Jesus Christ: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit [John 3:5]" are distorted into some sort of metaphor: let him be anathema.

Mt 26:26 ff; Mk 14:22l; Lk 22:19 ff; 1 Cor 11:23 ff - Council of Trent, October 11, 1551, "The Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist", chapter 1

First of all the holy Synod teaches and openly and simply professes that in the nourishing sacrament of the Holy Eucharist after the consecration of the bread and wine our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and man, is truly, really, and substantially [canon 1] contained under the species of those sensible things. For these things are not mutally contradictory, that our Saviour Himself is always seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven according to the natural mode of existing, and yet that in many other places sacramentally He is present to us in His own substance by that manner of existence which, althogh we can scarcely express it in words, yet we can, however, by our understanding illumintated by faith, conceive to be possible to God, and which we ought most steadfastly to believe. For thus all our forefathers, as many as were in the true Church of Christ, who have discussed this most holy sacrament, have most openly professed that our Redeemer instituted this so wonderful a sacrament at the Last Supper, when after the blessing of the bread and wine He testified in clear and definite words that He gave them His own body and His own blood; and those words which are recorded [Matthew 26:26ff; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19ff] by the holy Evangelists, and afterwards repeated by St. Paul [1 Cor 11:23 ff], since they contain within themselves that proper and very clear meaning in which they were understood by the Fathers, it is a most disgraceful thing for some contentious and wicked men to distort into fictitious and imaginary figures of speech, by which the real nature of the flesh and blood of Christ is denied, contrary to the universal sense of the Church, which, recognizing with an ever grateful and recollecting mind this most excellent benefit of Christ, as the pillar and ground of truth [1 Tim 3:15], has detested these falsehoods, devised by impious men, as satanical.

Jn 20:22 ff - Council of Trent, October 25, 1551, "Canons on the Sacrament of Penance," canon 3

If anyone says that those words of the Lord Savior: "Receive ye the Holy Ghost; whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins ye shall retain, they are retained [John 20:22ff]", are not to be understood of the power of remitting and retaining sins in the sacrament of penance, as the Catholic Church has always understood from the beginning, but, contrary to the institution of this sacrament, distorts them to an authority for preaching the Gospel: let him be anathema.

James 5:14 - Council of Trent, October 25, 1551, "Canons on Anointing of the Sick," canon 1

If anyone says that anointing of the sick is not truly and properly a sacrament instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ [cf. Mark 6:13], and promulgated by blessed James the Apostle [James 5:14], but is only a rite accepted by the Fathers, or a human fiction: let him be anathema.

Lk 22:19, 1 Cor 11:24 - Council of Trent, September 17, 1562 "Canons on the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass," canon 2

If anyone says that by these words: "Do this for a commemoration of me [Luke 22:19; 1 Cor. 11:24], Christ did not make the apostles priest, or did not ordain that they and other priests might offer His own body and blood: let him be anathema.

Mt 16:16; Jn 21:15 ff - Vatican I, July 18, 1870 "The Institution of Apostolic Primacy in Blessed Peter," chapter 1

[Against heretics and schismatics]. So we teach and declare that according to the testimonies of the Gospel and the primacy of jurisdiction over the entire Church of God was promised and was conferred immediately and directly upon the blessed Apostle Peter by Christ the Lord. For the one Simon, to whom He had before said: "Thou shalt be called Cephas [John 1:42]", after he had given forth his confession with those words: "Thou art Christ, Son of the living God [Matthew 16:16], the Lord spoke with these solemn words: "Blessed art thou, Simon bar Jonah; because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it: and I shall give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven [Matthew 16:17ff]." [Against Richerieus etc.] And upon Simon Peter alone Jesus after His resurrection conferred the jurisdicition of the highest pastor and rector over his entire fold, saying: "Feed my lambs," Feed my sheep [John 21:15ff]." To this teaching of Sacred Scriptures, so manifest as it has been always understood by the Catholic Church, are opposed openly the vicious opinions of those who perversely deny that the form of government in His Church was established by Christ the Lord; that to Peter alone, before the other apostles, whether individually or all together; was confided the true and proper primacy of jurisdiction by Christ; or, of those who affirm that the same primacy was not immediately and directly bestowed upon the blessed Peter himself, but upon the Church, and through this Church upon him as the minister of the Church herself.

Fourth List: This list is from Marcellino D’Abrosio’s website and he claims that there are only seven verses definitively defined by the Church. Here is his list.

John 3:5 When Jesus here says that we must be born of water and the Spirit, he implies that real water must be used for a valid baptism.

Luke 22:19 & I Cor. 11:24 When Jesus said to the apostles, “Do this in memory of me,” he meant to confer priestly ordination.

John 20:23 The power conferred on the apostles to bind and loose sins authorized them and their successors to forgive sins in God’s name in the sacrament of penance and reconciliation.

John 20:22 The sacrament of penance was instituted by Jesus who truly conveyed the Holy Spirit to the apostles on Easter Sunday afternoon.

Ro. 5:12 Adam’s sin truly caused all of his descendants to be born into a state of separation from God called Original Sin.

Jas. 5:14 Christ instituted the sacrament of the anointing of the sick.

https://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/media/articles/scripture-texts-interpreted-by-the-church/

For that matter, what proof do you have your Church being one and the same as that of the Apostles?

We can compare what is taught by the local church with what the Apostles taught. This is derived from Scripture.

Do you believe that every single truth of Christian faith and doctrine is found within thr Bible?

Let's let the Bible answer for the Bible.

14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:14-17 NASB

[Elsie]

If you think the Vatican II sect currently in Rome is the true Catholic Church of the ages, then your incredulity is reasonable and expected!

Where do you mere pew warmers get the authority to JUDGE to folks in power in Rome?

Aren't you afraid that you might accidently slip into Protestantism?

[GingisK]

Very nice reply, thank you. You have material worth pondering.

[vladimir998]

“If someone knows Christ, their lives will show it and people will see it.”

So everyone you know in daily life has become a believer in Christ, right? Seriously, you’re not making sense.

[Elsie]

Folks like you make me glad I’m a tax collector.

[ealgeone]

Scripture itself professes that there is more that Christ and His Apostles taught that was not recorded.

No one has denied this. However, this is what Scripture says about this:

30Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:30-31

13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13

After all, before Scripture was recorded, how were people saved? By listening to the Apostles and their successors in Christ’s Church, for those who hear the Apostles hear Christ, and thus the Father Himself. *He who has ears to hear, let him here.”

Yes...that is called preaching. No one denies the need to preach the word. It happens every Sunday in churches and daily around the world.

1I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 2 Timothy 4:1-2

Have you actually read the book Rome claims to have given everyone??

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Elsie, you keep bringing that up despite being refuted on who knows how many threads. Does it ever get old?

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/father.html

[ealgeone]

But, as I judge the evidence, the people who form the chain of transmission of the Bible, are credible, and are guided every step of the way -— from First Century til now -— by the Holy Spirit. The chain of transmission is key, because without that, you don’t know whether a book is legit.

But the Roman Catholic continues to rely upon writings that were deemed heretical by some of her own acclaimed writers. Many of these involve a lot of the mariolatry of Roman Catholicism.

Yet Rome continues to rely upon them ignoring their own prior condemnation.

[Elsie]

I'm having trouble finding your quoted text.

Can you help me?

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41 mins ago - I'll see you and raise you a "if she will not be covered, then let her be shorn.". 344 posted on 07/29/2019 1:59:19 PM PDT by grey_whiskers ...

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2 days ago - 15 posts - ‎4 authors

I'll see you and raise you a "if she will not be covered, then let her be shorn.". 344 posted on 7/29/2019, 1:59:19 PM by grey_whiskers (The ...

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[Elsie]

Oh; you are on salary then.

[Elsie]

Sorry Mark.

You awake?

[Elsie]

‘Tis ok.

We’ll STILL be here when the reek from Rome gets to be too much for even YOUR nostrils.

[grey_whiskers]

That was off the cuff, original to this thread.

[Elsie]

Does it ever get old?

Nope!

I just LOVE it every time you post the 'Official' spin on WHY Rome feels it's ok to DENY the Very Words of JESUS!

[Elsie]

Elsie, you keep bringing that up despite being refuted on who knows how many threads.

Some might say it beats being exposed by the many MILLIONS of bibles worldwide.