Wanna bet!!??!!
Posted on 08/17/2018 8:40:24 AM PDT by wardaddy
Cardinal Raymond Burke has called for “open recognition” of the Catholic church’s homosexual culture in light of recent revelations of sexual abuse. “I believe that there needs to be an open recognition that we have a very grave problem of a homosexual culture in the Church,” Burke said in an interview Thursday, “especially among the clergy and the hierarchy, that needs to be addressed honestly and efficaciously.”
he former head of the church’s equivalent of the Supreme Court said it was already “clear after the studies following the 2002 sexual abuse crisis that most of the acts of abuse were in fact homosexual acts committed with adolescent young men.”
“There was a studied attempt to either overlook or to deny this,” he said, referring to the mainstream media cover-up of the homosexual nature of the abuse as well as such denial within the church itself.
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
How about when the church abdicates its moral responsibility to police itself?
Then there's this, dan....
Romans 13:1-7 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good.
But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
You are correct sir. The cults are not new, and have led many people down the primrose path to Hell. Unfortunately, many more will go the same route, but we keep preaching.
I live in the belly of the beast. RCs, as well as followers of Felix Y Manalo, and Apollo C Quiboloy. Those two cults are tough to deal with. I have seen more Muslims accept the truth, than those two. The Mormons and JWs are here too, but do not have much influence. Praise God for that, as those are two pernicious cults.
I referenced that myself, for after and in addition to what the church is to do, there is the power of the state. As i said, the problem is the dangerous disregard of the function of both church and state, and of making the latter necessarily the first recourse to what happens under church jurisdiction, and the supreme judge on what is moral (which would include communist and Islamic governments).
But which recourse becomes the case when the state is acting more according to Scripture than the church.
But would you call or want the police to be called at every allegation made against your teen age kids under your roof, even before you investigated allegations made against them, and implicitly trust that the judgment of the state as to what is moral or not, and who is guilty or not will be superior to your own?
In the case of a family or church which has lost its credibility than the state sadly does become the first recourse for members, but as explained, in principle the fearsome power of the state should only be required when a person or church is not controlled from within. And thus when an allegation is made, the first recourse should be to the church leadership, which is to try cases and publicly expose/rebuke guilty pastors and further execute judgment corresponding to the violation. Which in the case of excommunication for moral offenses can mean leaving such to the state to deal with.
Thus a church officer who is suspected of stealing money is to be tried by the church, and if guilty then loss of position and restitution is to be mandated. Recourse to prosecution by the state is always available by the victims, but should not be used unless the church is negligent and or the guilty is incorrigible and excommunicated
In the case of moral violations in the NT church, the judgment against deception and (basically) breach of contract was that of death by supernatural means, (Acts 5) which also was the means in the case of a gross incestuous relationship. (1Co. 5)
Both were also unacceptable in Roman society, and likely had laws against it, but the church effectively dealt with it.
In addition, shunning/disfellowship was mandated for any one that was called a brother that was a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. (1 Corinthians 5:11) Which would leave him at the mercy of the state.
But I do not think we are mandated to report every single violation of law by those in our home, church or even neighborhood, and they of us.
Heck!
It goes back farther than that!
Seems like even catechized Catholics SHOULD know this.
St. Augustine sure did!!
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Augustine, sermon:
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
Call no man father...
Somewhere; in my Prot indoctrination sessions; I've missed this FACT.
Can you show it to me from the book Rome assembled from various sources so long ago?
Or will I just have to accept this circular logic as asserted to me?
Say something!
I guess I’m non-typical.
Call no man father.
Do you think your present pope is doing a good job in his office?
EXCELLENT one!
Amother is:
Why don't the early CATHOLIC churches; found in SCRIPTURE in Rev chap 2&3; FAIL to illustrate the "teachings of Jesus and the Apostles?"
Wanna bet!!??!!
“paying attention to the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles” leads any serious believer to the Catholic or Orthodox Church.
On the historical basis of Jesus establishing her.
Wanna bet!!??!!
Do you realize how many laws there are? Want others to call the police on you every time you violate a traffic law?
We look at the source and at the continuity of teaching with that of the Early Church, reflected both in the Holy Scripture and in the commentaries of the Fathers.
On the other hand, when a charlatan like Luther shows up 1500 years later and invents the theology he likes, then by that very fact we know that he cannot be right.
The African councils, like any other council, were binding on the Church, however, Trent had to respond firmly to Protestant lies and obfuscations regarding the Deuterocanon.
Ha, now that is irrational balderdash support an indefensable position
Plenty of Catholic Churches have Eastern Orthodox liturgy, do not add “filioque:, use leavened bread, and generally cannot be distinguished from Eastern Orthodox Churches.
Only the serious believer is going to pay attention to the teachings of Jesus, and considering the state of the Catholicism, obviously following the teachings is not going to be found there, nor is it a priority for them.
Following Christ leads no man to a denomination, especially one as corrupt and immoral as Catholicism has shown itself to be.
How can one affiliate with Catholicism and follow Jesus when Catholicism clearly doesn't?
The present crisis proves it does, too. A more godless organization would be hard to find.
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