Pope Francis grants indulgences for Dublin participants

BBC News ^ | 3 Jun 18 | Mark McCleary

[SkyPilot]

Participants attending the World Meeting of Families in August can be forgiven their sins or help a relative speed through purgatory.

Pope Francis has granted a "plenary indulgence" for those taking part.

In Catholic doctrine an indulgence frees you from being punished for your previously committed sins or it can be passed on to dead relatives to shorten their time in purgatory.

Even those following events on TV and radio can achieve a partial indulgence as long as they recite the Our Father, the Creed and other devout prayers.

Martin Luther's opposition to the sale of indulgences was one of the main causes of the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century.

The Sacred Apostolic Penitentiary, the Vatican body dealing with forgiveness of sins, said pilgrims would have to attend confession and Mass, pray for the Pope's intentions and participate in some function during the five-day event.

The use of indulgences in Catholicism is a tradition that goes back to the Crusades in the 11th Century.

[ConservativeMind]

You have provided a wonderful insight I have not had into this. I do not quite agree with your #3, but the Catholic perspective makes much more “sense” to me, now.

Thank you!

[Elsie]

The way it's written:

 

Galatians 4:4-5

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, ⁵ to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

 

 

 

The way Rome teaches it:

 

Galatians 4:4-5

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a....

 

Co-Redemptrix, 
Ark of the Covenant,

Beloved daughter of the Father,
Favoured Daughter of the Father,

Cause of Our Joy,

Cause of our Salvation ,
Comfort of the Afflicted,
Destroyer of Heresy,
Ever-virgin ,
Gate of Heaven,
God-bearer,

Great Mother,
Health of the Sick,

Heavenly Chariot,
Help of Christians,
Holy Mary,
Holy Mother of God,
Holy Virgin of Virgins,
House of Gold,
Joy of the Just,
Majesty,
Mirror of Justice,
Morning Star,
Most Holy,
Mother Admirable,
Mother Inviolate,
Mother Most Amiable,
Mother Most Chaste,
Mother Most Pure,
Mother of Christ,
Mother of Divine Grace,
Mother of God,
Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Mercy,
Mother of Orphans,
Mother of Our Creator,
Mother of Our Redeemer,
Mother of Sorrows,
Mother of the Church,
Mother of the Poor,
Mother of the Word,

Mother of the Word Incarnate,
Mother Thrice Admirable,
Mother Undefiled,
Mystical Rose,
Nova Eva (the New Eve),
Our Lady of Compassion,
Our Lady of Confidence,
Our Lady of Victory,
Our Lady, Star of the Sea,
Our Mother of Perpetual Help,
Queen Assumed Into Heaven,
Queen Conceived Without Original Sin,
Queen of All Saints,
Queen of Angels,
Queen of Apostles,
Queen of Confessors,
Queen of Families,
Queen of Heaven,
Queen of Martyrs,
Queen of Patriarchs,
Queen of Peace,
Queen of Prophets,
Queen of the Most Holy Rosary,
Queen of Virgins,
Ravisher of Hearts,
Refuge of Sinners,

Resplendant car,
Seat of Wisdom,
She Who Shows the Way,
Singular Vessel of Devotion,
Spiritual Vessel,

Spouse of the Holy Spirit,

Sovereign Mistress of the Angels, 
Tabernacle of the Lord,

Temple of the Holy Spirit,
Temple of the Most Holy Trinity,
Throne of Wisdom,
Tower of David,
Tower of Ivory,
Treasure House of God's Graces,
Untier of Knots,
Vessel of Honor,
Virgin God-bearer,
Virgin Most Faithful,
Virgin Most Merciful,
Virgin Most Powerful,
Virgin Most Prudent,
Virgin Most Renowned,
Virgin Most Venerable

Virgin of virgins,                           born under the law, ⁵ to HELP redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship; sooner or later; and not spend TOO much time in Purgatory.

[Elsie]

Thanks for an honest question. Really. On this forum it's kinda-like refreshing.

Here's an 'honest' question:

Are those 7 churches mentioned in Revelation chap 2-3 Catholic or not?

[Mrs. Don-o]

"You'd be accurate if you said people experience ALL of their temporal punishment right here on earth. "

But that's just the point., Some people very obviously do not receive all their temporal punishment on earth.

Think about it. Jeffrey Dahmer (LINK), the multiple torturer/forcible-sodomist/cannibal, was sentenced to 17 life sentences for his 17 murders. While in prison, he reportedly repented of his crimes. After only about two years, he was killed by another inmate.

Do you think he paid for 17 dismemberment flesheating sodomy rape-murders in two years?

There is no way we can know God's judgments. We cannot know on this earth. But we know God is inescapably just. By God's grace I believe Dahmer entered Heaven surely, but by God's justice I cannot presume he entered it instantaneously.

I say again, I can't judge, and thank God for that.

The only other alternative, is that with two mostly-unbothered years in prison, Dahmer experienced ALL of his temporal punishment right here on earth. Wouldn't that be presumptious? Wouldn't it be taking things lightly?

“My son, do not think lightly
of the Lord’s discipline
or give up when you are corrected by him.
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he punishes every son he accepts.”

Hebrews 12:5-6

May God have mercy on his soul.

[Luircin]

I’d like to continue this conversation because I enjoy pretty much anything that encourages me to dig into the Word, even an argument.

But this is a bad week for it; I have a VBS lesson to prepare for tomorrow and an ear infection to fight off. (AGAIN, arrrrgh)

So I’m going to have to call it here for tonight. I’ll get to you tomorrow if I have free time.

[Elsie]

Instructions for Christian Households

¹⁸ Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

¹⁹ Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

²⁰ Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.

²¹ Fathers,^[c] do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

²² Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. ²³ Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, ²⁴ since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. ²⁵ Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

[Elsie]

The haters must jump on any opportunity to discredit, misrepresent, ridicule, and HATE Catholics; it has become so tiresome.

I'm sure they do it out of love.

Like the Catholics do...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“How can a person who admitted to being sinful (why else would you need a Savior) presume to be sinless before almighty God! ”

How can a person who understands the terrible price Christ paid with His death, presume He missed payment for some sins?

[Elsie]

I refuse to read your scurrilous mockeries ever again,...

Luke 6:27-28

27 But to those of you who will listen, I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“It’s impossible to call that an unbiblical doctrine. ”

It is unbiblical to leave out what happens to the believer when he entrusts himself to Christ.

It is unbiblical to fail to distinguish consequences in this life from consequences in eternity.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“does not mean that temporal punishments or consequences are abolished.

No where is it taught that temporal punishments follow any true believer into eternity.

“Many a forgiven sinner is in the State Pentientiary and will be for years to come.”

Not a single one. Never in Scripture.

Yet another pagan accretion of Rome.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I did not comment extensively on what happens to a believer when he entrusts himself to the Lord, so let me expand on that a bit. He becomes a child of God, whom he can trustingly address as "Abba, Father" The Lord takes away all his sins and gives him a new life in eternity which is bliss with Him forever. Thanks be to God for this total and glorious gift of heaven.

But before that, a believer, when he entrusts himself to the Lord, receives chastisement. His being a son does not exclude chastisement; quite the contrary:

“My son, do not think lightly
of the Lord’s discipline
or give up when you are corrected by him.
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he punishes every son he accepts.”
Hebrews 12:5-6

As for the consequences in this life as distinguished from the consequences in eternity, the chastisement of a believer does not occur in eternity. Punishment in eternity is hell, and this is not the final destiny of the believer.

Purgatory --- not necessarily a place, but a "state" of purification after death--- does not happen in eternity. Purgatory is temporal punishment due to sin which has been forgiven. All the souls being purified are forgiven, saved, destined for glory by the grace of God, and they know this and thank God for it.

This merciful purification is not hell or related to hell. It is not a suburb or level of hell. It is infinitely distant from hell. It is total and glorious purification .

(Psalm 66:9-10)He preserves our lives and keeps our feet from slipping. For You , O God, have tested us; You have refined us like silver.

(Zechariah 13:9) I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'They are My people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'"

(Malachi 3:3) And He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver. Then they will present offerings to the LORD in righteousness.

(1 Corinthians 3:15)
If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

So we are made glorious for indescribable bliss in the presence of the everlasting love, the infinite God.

[ealgeone]

Has the Vatican denied it? Simple question.

[Campion]

Indulgences are only of value to the saved.

[ealgeone]

Think about it. Jeffrey Dahmer (LINK), the multiple torturer/forcible-sodomist/cannibal, was sentenced to 17 life sentences for his 17 murders. While in prison, he reportedly repented of his crimes. After only about two years, he was killed by another inmate.

Do you think he paid for 17 dismemberment flesheating sodomy rape-murders in two years?

You miss the point of the Cross. Christ paid for his sins.

[ealgeone]

Indulgences.....a non Biblical concept.

[ealgeone]

Get well, brother/sister.....and raise up those little ones in the name of Christ.

[Campion]

I will continue to compare Roman Catholic doctrines to Scripture

You will continue to compare your caricatured misrepresentations of Catholic doctrines to your misunderstood, mangled, and incomplete understanding of Scripture ... you mean.

People who accuse Catholics of "resacrificing" Christ in the Mass don't get to be treated like heroic crusaders for truth, at least not by me. If you can't deal with that ...

[ealgeone]

Your first paragraph is advocating once saved, always saved. That is not the Roman Catholic position.....though the New Testament one.

You’re getting close.

[Campion]

I guess you can't read the caption underneath your picture?

Let me help: Nicholas Owen, of the Society of Jesus, on account of the hatred of the Catholic faith, tormented "enectus" (on the rack? ... not sure) in London, England, AD 1606, 12 November. (The date is wrong, Owen was martyred in March.)