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To: ealgeone
"You'd be accurate if you said people experience ALL of their temporal punishment right here on earth. "

But that's just the point., Some people very obviously do not receive all their temporal punishment on earth.

Think about it. Jeffrey Dahmer (LINK), the multiple torturer/forcible-sodomist/cannibal, was sentenced to 17 life sentences for his 17 murders. While in prison, he reportedly repented of his crimes. After only about two years, he was killed by another inmate.

Do you think he paid for 17 dismemberment flesheating sodomy rape-murders in two years?

There is no way we can know God's judgments. We cannot know on this earth. But we know God is inescapably just. By God's grace I believe Dahmer entered Heaven surely, but by God's justice I cannot presume he entered it instantaneously.

I say again, I can't judge, and thank God for that.

The only other alternative, is that with two mostly-unbothered years in prison, Dahmer experienced ALL of his temporal punishment right here on earth. Wouldn't that be presumptious? Wouldn't it be taking things lightly?

“My son, do not think lightly
of the Lord’s discipline
or give up when you are corrected by him.
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he punishes every son he accepts.”

Hebrews 12:5-6

May God have mercy on his soul.

104 posted on 06/04/2018 7:34:34 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (You are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift--)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Think about it. Jeffrey Dahmer (LINK), the multiple torturer/forcible-sodomist/cannibal, was sentenced to 17 life sentences for his 17 murders. While in prison, he reportedly repented of his crimes. After only about two years, he was killed by another inmate.

Do you think he paid for 17 dismemberment flesheating sodomy rape-murders in two years?

You miss the point of the Cross. Christ paid for his sins.

115 posted on 06/04/2018 8:21:30 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Luircin; ealgeone
Think about it. Jeffrey Dahmer (LINK), the multiple torturer/forcible-sodomist/cannibal, was sentenced to 17 life sentences for his 17 murders. While in prison, he reportedly repented of his crimes. After only about two years, he was killed by another inmate. Do you think he paid for 17 dismemberment flesheating sodomy rape-murders in two years? There is no way we can know God's judgments. We cannot know on this earth. But we know God is inescapably just. By God's grace I believe Dahmer entered Heaven surely, but by God's justice I cannot presume he entered it instantaneously. I say again, I can't judge, and thank God for that. The only other alternative, is that with two mostly-unbothered years in prison, Dahmer experienced ALL of his temporal punishment right here on earth. Wou

Now i see that no matter how your compelled defense of Rome is refuted you just keep posting the same, but this is plainly heretical based on Scripture, as well as being contrary to certain Catholic teachings.

Scripture clearly says all sins are forgiven in conversion by heart-purifying faith:

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (Colossians 2:13)

And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:9)

And while believers will be held accountable for how they built the church, suffering the Lord's disapproval and loss of rewards for combustible material at the judgment seat of Christ at His return, as shown, there is not even a hint of souls suffering for sins done before conversion.

Moreover, in Catholic teaching on dogma is that "Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both eternal and temporal." - http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/dogma.php

Thus it is taught that newly baptized souls would go to Heaven directly if they immediately died after baptism, as Augustine reportedly did. - https://forums.catholic.com/t/deathbed-baptism-skip-purgatory/45861/4

And thus it is taught that,

A plenary indulgence means that by the merits of Jesus Christ, the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints, the full remission of the temporal punishment due to sacramentally forgiven sins is obtained. The person becomes as if just baptized and would fly immediately to heaven if he died in that instant. - https://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/what.htm

Of course, RC (the EO brand is different) purgatory is not only for making atonement for sin, but for perfection of character, which conversion does not effect. The carnal old man is all too alive after conversion, and thus the RC must endure purifying torments in order to once again become good enough (though he never actually was) to enter Heaven.

Thus rather than acceptance in the Beloved on His account and is made to sit with Him in Heaven, (Eph. 1:6; 2:6) and wherefore the believer has direct spiritual access into the holy of holies by the sinless shed blood of Christ, (Heb. 10:19) and will go to be with the Lord at death or at His coming, (1Thes. 4:17) the RC gospel is effectively salvation by works thru grace, whereby he may attain the impossible standard of actually, practically being good enough to be with God.

The only other alternative, is that with two mostly-unbothered years in prison, Dahmer experienced ALL of his temporal punishment right here on earth. Wouldn't that be presumptious? Wouldn't it be taking things lightly?

As for premise is false, so also is your conclusion. However, since contrite criminal went to be with the Lord that day, RCs imagine that a mere 3 hours of suffering (Christ;s suffering was as a scapegoat, and was more than just physical) not only atoned for all his sins, but also perfected His character. Which is absurd. Perfection of character is not even affected by only physically suffering, but within the trials and temptations to escape this world offers.

197 posted on 06/05/2018 4:51:55 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; ealgeone

Re: Jeffrey Dahmer - hard cases make bad law

Our human reflex would be that a person who committed such horrible crimes MUST suffer for them. But we really have no idea of the depths of God’s grace. Had Dahmer - who was obviously mentally sick and depraved - been executed for what he did instead of living out his days in prison, would our sense of justice be assuaged? Probably not - you can only die one time and he took many lives. Can we trust God to do what is right and just? I know I can. And even IF that means a truly repentant and believing Dahmer went straight to heaven when he died, I STILL trust God to do what is right and just and I marvel at His amazing grace.


217 posted on 06/05/2018 6:56:49 PM PDT by boatbums (The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
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