Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

What STEM Students Need to Know
Wall Street Journal ^ | 12-18-2017 | Eric Freeman and David Gelernter

Posted on 12/19/2017 2:44:20 PM PST by RicocheT

"The U.S. is about to spend a small fortune on teaching science, technology, engineering and mathematics, or STEM....That’s a good investment in theory, but the American education system is in no position to make the most of it."

"...Students should reach college prepared to take serious science and engineering courses, yet many don’t. Our math teaching is half a century out of date, and without math there is no STEM. Computer science builds on electronics and “discrete mathematics,” as opposed to the classical type leading to calculus."

(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: education; stem
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-163 next last
To: RicocheT

There are very few teachers who are scholars anymore. Most of them went into teaching because the college curriculum was easy and they wanted jobs in which being fired or laid off would be extremely unlikely.

If we want brilliant STEM students we need briliant STEM teachers. We are extremely lacking in the latter.


41 posted on 12/19/2017 3:35:34 PM PST by RooRoobird20 ("Democrats haven't been this angry since Republicans freed the slaves.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: zeestephen
My advice to American students...

Unless you have exceptional skills, do not pursue a STEM degree.

Why?

H-1B and OPT foreign work visas, that's why.

All “average” American STEM graduates will be working for below-market salaries.

And, most “average” American STEM graduates will be evicted from their STEM jobs by age forty.

The University I teach for is able to hire foreign engineering Ph'ds to teach for $50-60k. It is foolish for Americans to get a doctorial degree to compete with this.

42 posted on 12/19/2017 3:36:53 PM PST by Last Dakotan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy
And I was a math major, boy did that degree open doors for me.

1. If you ever coded a mathematical formula, you did math.

2. If you ever had to prove your coded formula was correct, you did math.

3. If you ever had to use a different number base, you did math.

However in your defense, there was almost never a straight up math problem. Only once is 30 years did I actually directly use my advanced math education. An EE and a guy with an MS in Physics had a problem to solve, they found a formula unfortunately for them the targeted solution variable was in the middle of the equation. And my advanced math training kicked in, I reworked their equation solving for the variable, then I knew why math was important. Programmers need the formula given to them in codable format.

BTW, my masters education is software engineering. Spent many an hour using my math skills checking binary and hex programs.

43 posted on 12/19/2017 3:37:10 PM PST by where's_the_Outrage? (Drain the Swamp. Build the Wall.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: dhs12345
You said so many great things, I have to comment:

Calculus is necessary for many of the sciences — Physics especially.

Calculus was developed by Newton in order for him to finish his calculations of the laws of motion. The math at the time was insufficient. So yes, they are intertwined completely.

Understanding Physics helps an engineer understand their discipline.

when I took engineering classes, I was told engineering was the practical application of physics. If you consider each branch of engineering (excluding chemical and metallurical), it comes from a field of physics.

Computer Science is mostly related to software programming and writing code and computer architectures so Calc may not be needed. Although matrix and vector math (2nd or 3rd semester Calc) is used in programming.

I got my first job on a naval base doing avionics programming. Their philosophy was that it was better to hire engineers and teach them to code (at that time, computer science was in its infancy, I only took a small handful of computer classes), instead of taking a computer scientist and teaching them the engineering needed. We had a couple of physicists and computer scientists about to consult with, but the base was 95% engineers.
44 posted on 12/19/2017 3:37:58 PM PST by CottonBall (Thank you, Julian!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: FredZarguna

...and Chemical Physics.


45 posted on 12/19/2017 3:38:22 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: where's_the_Outrage?
“Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best, he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear his shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house.”

― Robert A. Heinlein
46 posted on 12/19/2017 3:38:28 PM PST by Frobenius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: CottonBall
I got my first job on a naval base doing avionics programming. Their philosophy was that it was better to hire engineers and teach them to code (at that time, computer science was in its infancy, I only took a small handful of computer classes), instead of taking a computer scientist and teaching them the engineering needed. We had a couple of physicists and computer scientists about to consult with, but the base was 95% engineers.

Yep. I once worked at a telecommunications equipment company whose early software products were made by engineers who learned programming. When they switched to the opposite philosophy (hiring comp sci grads with no experience in telecommunications) it was a disaster. It took entire departments to do what used to be done by individual engineers.

47 posted on 12/19/2017 3:42:35 PM PST by snarkpup (The swamp is draining; and the alligators are allegating.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: RooRoobird20

We used to have a saying:

Those that can’t do, teach.

Those that can’t teach, teach teachers!


48 posted on 12/19/2017 3:43:43 PM PST by catman67 (14 gauge?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: the OlLine Rebel

I took one art class (cuz I had to) and all I remember is saying “I can’t think of anything to draw” every day.

But I have NEVER run out of ideas of things to BUILD!


49 posted on 12/19/2017 3:46:08 PM PST by bigbob (People say believe half of what you see son and none of what you hear - M. Gaye)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: HonorInPa
Yes, a basic understanding should be required, but is teaching differential equations a good use of tuition dollars?

It depends. We used it a lot in EE for control systems design and then used linear algebra (i.e computers) to solve them.
50 posted on 12/19/2017 3:47:27 PM PST by microgood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: catman67

Thise who can’t teach or hate teaching become administrators.


51 posted on 12/19/2017 3:51:11 PM PST by RooRoobird20 ("Democrats haven't been this angry since Republicans freed the slaves.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: RooRoobird20
Thise who can’t teach or hate teaching become administrators.

Or politicians.

52 posted on 12/19/2017 3:51:52 PM PST by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: RicocheT

Gads, so sad. Went through HS in the early 70’s. We had intermediate Algebra or trig in freshman year( I was int algebra), drafting/engineering, Bio, anthropology( my elective) and Spanish. It was fun when the electronics guys figured how to blow the transformer and we on the other side had floor plans for the whole school so it was a team effort to get those teachers on Valium and seconal....never mind what fun it was in biology!


53 posted on 12/19/2017 3:54:21 PM PST by Karliner (Jeremiah29:11,Romans8:28 Isa 17, Damascus has fallen)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fella

The biggest reason math is taught poorly at the K12 level is because learning the basics (as in algebra!) takes effort!

People have no problem justifying hours & hours of sports practice but for math that’s too much to ask of the students, teachers or parents.

Also math results in possible grading consequences that are socially uncomfortable. Though these “uncomfortable results” might be over come by effort. Effort which can no longer be asked for or demanded.


54 posted on 12/19/2017 3:54:25 PM PST by Reily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: TheConservativeTejano
>p>I was telling my wife that these formulas in Calculus are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Yep first time I went through math I was using supplemental books from my grandpa in the 1920's and my dad in the 1950's...same formulas, only back then there were few analogies, you either learned or burned.

55 posted on 12/19/2017 3:57:30 PM PST by Karliner (Jeremiah29:11,Romans8:28 Isa 17, Damascus has fallen)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: dhs12345

I have a master’s in engineering and have been a professional engineer for 32 years. I have earned a six figure income for over 25 years. I am happy with the career choice I made, and I regularly speak to groups of high school students about preparing to major in STEM curricula in college.

STEM careers overall are still high-paying and in demand. If you combine a STEM degree with excellent speaking and writing skills, the world can be your oyster.


56 posted on 12/19/2017 4:02:31 PM PST by RooRoobird20 ("Democrats haven't been this angry since Republicans freed the slaves.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: snarkpup

I’ve had similar problems with Comp Sci grads were they have gone through their curriculum and not take any physical science courses. Some of the code they came up with would have been great if there was no gravity, friction, strength of materials or thermodynamics!


57 posted on 12/19/2017 4:05:19 PM PST by Reily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: RooRoobird20

Very well said!


58 posted on 12/19/2017 4:06:36 PM PST by Reily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Karliner

I love those old science & engineering textbooks!
So much better written then those today!


59 posted on 12/19/2017 4:11:05 PM PST by Reily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: zeestephen

For every engineering job, there are going to be fifty caregiver jobs.

The big money is in medicine.

Schools should be teaching medically related things like medical terminology and anatomy.


60 posted on 12/19/2017 4:16:01 PM PST by Brian Griffin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-163 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson