Republican tax bill would tie the hands of blue-state governments

Washington Examiner ^ | 12/11/17 | Joseph Lawler

[x1stcav]

The tax overhaul would raise the taxes of some earners and make it harder for states to do the same. The ultimate effect would be to decrease governments’ ability to raise taxes and increase spending – essentially reining in state budgeteers.

That is an advantage to conservatives who have long sought to advance fiscal conservatism at the state level and who see the state and local tax deduction as a subsidy for high-spending, high-taxing states – that is, blue states.

“This was our point from the start,” said Jonathan Williams, chief economist at the American Legislative Exchange Council, a group that advocates free-market policies for state governments.

“We hope that it engenders more fiscal discipline at the state level in those high-tax states,” Williams said.

[WilliamIII]

Thanks. Another creative argument taxing people more.

[Jarhead9297]

+2

[trebb]

How much should they be able to tax property? Why should something one has paid for be able to be taxed in perpetuity and stolen from the person if there’s a “mix-up”????

[Svartalfiar]

“I pay $19,000/year and live in rural Texas.”

But his is way high for rural Texas.

I'm moving into a $250k home in Rowlett/Rockwall County, which has higher taxes than alot of the area. And we're only paying ~$4k. So his rural TX home would have to be pretty big to hit that much in taxes, and what about tax exemptions? If you even do ranching part-time, you can deduct a bunch of expenses, or, if it's just land, you can look at the TX wildlife management exemption.

[Svartalfiar]

How much should they be able to tax property? Why should something one has paid for be able to be taxed in perpetuity and stolen from the person if there’s a “mix-up”????

I don't know about rural areas, but most cities already charge you separately for water, sewage, trash pickup, etc. Property taxes aren't really paying for the things you use day-to-day, unless you have kids in public school. You should be able to opt-out of property taxes, and then pay fees separately if you require fire or police services. Of course, they probably charge you anyway if you do call them - I know when my sister had to go to the hospital, my parents got a pretty hefty EMT / ambulance bill!

For schools, you should be able to opt out of property taxes, but if so you are responsible for paying the cost of sending the kids through school. There's no reason (aside from Marx) that people with no kids should be paying for it! Start with this being optional, but slowly move to making this the system everywhere. Parents would probably be way more involved in their kids' educations if they saw the $$ coming out of their pocket, and not just as taxes (3rd party) or even taxes via rent (4th party!). Also, you'd eliminate a lot of the illegal piggy-backing, as they would be responsible for each kid, instead of paying minimal taxes cramming a ton of people into a single house or apt and not paying much property tax. And, I'm sure the districts would be more efficiently run (make admin the first to take cuts if there's not enough $$), as well as poor teaching better policed.

And, on the whole, municipalities and counties would probably have more taxpayer-friendly expenditures, especially on retirements and such. Pensions are ridiculous, and even the base retirement plan is crazy good - 2:1 matching, up to 14%! Many private companies may do .5:1 matching, maybe 1:1. And usually maxes out at 5% or so.

And, not paying property taxes should never be a reason for property to be confiscated. At most, the city/county should be able to cut off any and all services, but in no way take the property. Only exception would be abandoned property laws.

[MeanWestTexan]

That’s just my house!

(The ranch is much larger, but those taxes are a business expense, which is not going away.)

[MeanWestTexan]

House.

(And the ranch is 37.5 sections . . . and much higher . . .but that’s a business expense.)

[MeanWestTexan]

It’s a nice house in the city limits of Midland TX.

We’re a “robin hood” district so our taxes are absurd . . . and then the money is siphoned off to Oak Cliff in Dallas and other hell holes. Progressive BS, even in Texas.

As above, I have a sizeable ranch, but property taxes are a business expense.

[Mears]

Astonishing amount of taxes.

.

[SkyPilot]

Under the new tax bill I estimate my taxes will increase by about $5,000 a year with those deductions being lowered and eliminated. I am just barely into what might be considered upper middle class. All people in my situation will be hurt but one cannot just walk away from one’s livelihood to move to a lower tax state. And trying to put pressure on reps here in Washington to lower property taxes is a joke. The state is totally controlled by Marxists. ..... I want to support our new GOP federal government but budgeting an extra $400 dollars or so a month for taxes is very painful.

I hear you brother. Two points:

1. You are not alone - many of us are now in the same boat and will be paying more under this GOPe "tax cut"

2. No, you're not crazy, but many FReepers want you to think that you are.

In order to cut the corporate rate from 35% to 21%, the GOPe needed an additional $1.4 Trillion in tax revenue. Where are they going to get that? By raising the taxes on people like you and many of us.

Also, these tax bill threads have been very viscous and disheartening. If you thought before that "Conservative" meant that you should keep more of your own money, and that double taxation was wrong - you have discovered in recent weeks that for many, that no longer applies.

I also used to find it hard to imagine how Americans could have turned so easily and violently on each other during the Bleeding Kansas terror of the 1850s or the US Civil War.

Well, now have discovered that it is all too easy to do. Certain states and regions hate other states and regions, and hate the people who live there.

No matter if you are patriot, a conservative, a Christian, a veteran, or a parent. You "live in a hell hole" and you can "go to hell for all I care!"

That's the mantra from many these days.

And if you live in Texas, or Pennsylvania, or California, or New York, and are getting screwed out of your deductions, well.....perhaps you "make too much" anyway.

It's been a real education here the last few weeks.

Forward!

[Mariner]

The real education has been the prevalence of Social Justice Warriors on Free Republic.

And they are rabidly driven by hate. Just like the Social Justice Warriors on the left.

And there is no reasoning with them. They feel what they feel and nothing will change their feeling.

[Mariner]

“The ultimate effect would be to decrease governments’ ability to raise taxes and increase spending”

What grand, delicious irony.

The goal to “decrease governments’ ability to raise taxes and increase spending” will be achieved by raising taxes and increasing spending.

[Mariner]

According to Red Badger we have to stop subsidizing you.

[Mariner]

“I think as a strategy, it puts more pain into the equation for those who tolerate Liberal state tax policies.”

It also puts more pain into the equation for those who tolerate the Republicans that raised their taxes.

[Mariner]

“This tax bill requires them to stop hiding their credit card bills in the national debt, and you’re upset because you’ve been a beneficiary of this scam.”

That’s an absurd notion not born out by facts.

Nobody, anywhere else “subsidizes” any of these taxpayers or states. If you think they do please explain the flow of money that supports your contention.

Secondly, all of these blue states pay more in Federal Taxes, PER CAPITA than the vast majority of red states.

Who subsidizes whom?

[Mariner]

“CA will never cast electoral votes for a republican anyway”

What of those 14 Republican House members from CA?

What of the combined 34 Republican House member from CA, NY, NJ and IL?

Are they expendable too?

[Mariner]

“will just spin it as a GOPee tax increase and the blue state voters will swallow it hook, line and sinker.”

It IS a Republican tax increase.

It’s not possible to argues otherwise and be seen as sane.

[DiogenesLamp]

It also puts more pain into the equation for those who tolerate the Republicans that raised their taxes.

We are all looking for ways to turn this direction around, but I have long suspected much of the troubles we face are systemic in nature, and cannot be solved short of a collapse of some sort.

A year or so ago I read a wonderful essay, the premise of which is something along the lines of "Things go... until they can't."

It used the Roman empire as an example of a governing structure that "worked" at first, but as more foolish ideas kept getting added to it, it became more unwieldly and more rickety. The thought was put forth; "Why didn't they just remove the "bad" thing that was added, so it could go back to working again?"

The answer was that the "bad" thing had substantial support from those who benefited from the "bad" thing, and they wouldn't tolerate it's removal.

Hence, the only thing that could happen was collapse.

I come more and more to suspect that this circumstance is an ongoing affair in human events, and we just happen to be around at the time when we are witnessing the same sort of unstoppable event with our own system of governance.

[MeanWestTexan]

What’s ironic is my taxes are so high because our county is “rich.” So taxes above 1.06% per 100 are sent to Dallas and Houston inner-city schools.

So while our tax rate should be (and I’m making these numbers up for illustrative purposes) 1.2% to fund our local schools, they are 2% so our schools can net 1.2%.

It’s progressive B.S.

[MountainWalker]

Sure, it works like this:

IRS: Each of you pay 39%.
New Yorker: But the Democrats running my state made me pay an additional 10% in income taxes!
IRS: OK, you get a discount.
Texan: Wait, where’s my discount?
IRS: Too f’n bad.