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1 posted on 09/18/2017 1:32:30 PM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges

Mr Lincoln’s war destroyed states rights, the 17th only made is official.


2 posted on 09/18/2017 1:35:44 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Borges

oh. it’s a paul thread. never mind.

I was going to launch off on a thoroughgoing defense of alexander hamilton and the high federalists . . . but it’s a paul thread. no one gives a sh*t what that guy thinks. well, other than his 50 followers, 48 of whom frequent this forum.


3 posted on 09/18/2017 1:50:24 PM PDT by JohnBrowdie
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To: Borges
With respect to Cong. Paul, his words are misleading as to Story--that Marshall's protégé and right hand man Joseph Story codified Marshall's vision for federal judicial supremacy as a popular legal scholar and law professor. Even today, law students across the country are taught Story's version of federal power. Story's message is simple: the federal government is supreme (even if it isn't), the state governments are subservient to the central authority, and the federal court system is the final arbiter in all constitutional questions. When these law students become lawyers and judges, they echo Story's teachings."For evidence of his misleading statements, read the following:
Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall, when the wise are banished from the public councils, because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded, because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.

        Justice Joseph Story

Is it not time for American citizens to review Justice Story's Commentaries on the Constitution. . . .?

Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States (1833) - by Joseph L. Story - BOOK 3, CHAPTER 45 - Concluding Remarks

Sec. 1903. We have now reviewed all the provisions of the original constitution of the United States, and all the amendments, which have been incorporated into it. And, here, the task originally proposed in these Commentaries is brought to a close. Many reflections naturally crowd upon the mind at such a moment; many grateful recollections of the past; and many anxious thoughts of the future. The past is secure. It is unalterable. The seal of eternity is upon it. The wisdom, which it has displayed, and the blessings, which it has bestowed, cannot be obscured; neither can they be debased by human folly, or human infirmity. The future is that, which may well awaken the most earnest solicitude, both for the virtue and the permanence of our republic. The fate of other republics, their rise, their progress, their decline, and their fall, are written but too legibly on the pages of history, if indeed they were not continually before us in the startling fragments of their ruins. They have perished; and perished by their own hands. Prosperity has enervated them, corruption has debased them, and a venal populace has consummated their destruction. Alternately the prey of military chieftains at home, and of ambitious invaders from abroad, they have been sometimes cheated out of their liberties by servile demagogues; sometimes betrayed into a surrender of them by false patriots; and sometimes they have willingly sold them for a price to the despot, who has bidden highest for his victims. They have disregarded the warning voice of their best statesmen; and have persecuted, and driven from office their truest friends. They have listened to the fawning sycophant, and the base calumniator of the wise and the good. They have reverenced power more in its high abuses and summary movements, than in its calm and constitutional energy, when it dispensed blessings with an unseen, but liberal hand. They have surrendered to faction, what belonged to the country. Patronage and party, the triumph of a leader, and the discontents of a day, have outweighed all solid principles and institutions of government. Such are the melancholy lessons of the past history of republics down to our own.

Sec. 1904. It is not my design to detain the reader by any elaborate reflections addressed to his judgment, either by way of admonition or of encouragement. But it may not be wholly without use to glance at one or two considerations, upon which our meditations cannot be too frequently indulged.

Sec. 1905. In the first place, it cannot escape our notice, how exceedingly difficult it is to settle the foundations of any government upon principles, which do not admit of controversy or question. The, very elements, out of which it is to be built, are susceptible of infinite modifications; and theory too often deludes us by the attractive simplicity of its plans, and imagination by the visionary perfection of its speculations. In theory, a government may promise the most perfect harmony of operations in all its various combinations. In practice, the whole machinery may be perpetually retarded, or thrown out of order by accidental maladjustments. In theory, a government may seem deficient in unity of design and symmetry of parts; and yet, in practice, it may work with astonishing accuracy and force for the general welfare. Whatever, then, has been found to work well in experience, should be rarely hazarded upon conjectural improvements. Time, and long and steady operation are indispensable to the perfection of all social institutions. To be of any value they must become cemented with the habits, the feelings, and the pursuits of the people. Every change discomposes for a while the whole arrangements of the system. What is safe is not always expedient; what is new is often pregnant with unforeseen evils, and imaginary good.

Sec. 1906. In the next place, the slightest attention to the history of the national constitution must satisfy every reflecting mind, how many difficulties attended its formation and adoption, from real or imaginary differences of interests, sectional feelings, and local institutions. It is an attempt to create a national sovereignty, and yet to preserve the state sovereignties; though it is impossible to assign definite boundaries in every case to the powers of each. The influence of the disturbing causes, which, more than once in the convention, were on the point of breaking up the Union, have since immeasurably increased in concentration and vigour. The very inequalities of a government, confessedly founded in a compromise, were then felt with a strong sensibility; and every new source of discontent, whether accidental or permanent, has since added increased activity to the painful sense of these inequalities. The North cannot but perceive, that it has yielded to the South a superiority of representatives, already amounting to twenty-five, beyond its due proportion; and the South imagines, that, with all this preponderance in representation, the other parts of the Union enjoy a more perfect protection of their interests, than her own. The West feels her growing power and weight in the Union; and the Atlantic states begin to learn, that the sceptre must one day depart from them. If, under these circumstances, the Union should once be broken up, it is impossible, that a new constitution should ever be formed, embracing the whole Territory. We shall be divided into several nations or confederacies, rivals in power and interest, too proud to brook injury, and too close to make retaliation distant or ineffectual. Our very animosities will, like those of all other kindred nations, become more deadly, because our lineage, laws, and language are the same. Let the history of the Grecian and Italian republics warn us of our dangers. The national constitution is our last, and our only security. United we stand; divided we fall.

Sec. 1907. If these Commentaries shall but inspire in the rising generation a more ardent love of their country, an unquenchable thirst for liberty, and a profound reverence for the constitution and the Union, then they will have accomplished all, that their author ought to desire. Let the American youth never forget, that they possess a noble inheritance, bought by the toils, and sufferings, and blood of their ancestors; and capable, if wisely improved, and faithfully guarded, of transmitting to their latest posterity all the substantial blessings of fife, the peaceful enjoyment of liberty, property, religion, and independence. The structure has been erected by architects of consummate skill and fidelity; its foundations are solid; its compartments are beautiful, as well as useful; its arrangements are full of wisdom and order; and its defences are impregnable from without. It has been reared for immortality, if the work of man may justly aspire to such a title. It may, nevertheless, perish in an hour by the folly, or corruption, or negligence of its only keepers, THE PEOPLE. Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall, when the wise are banished from the public councils, because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded, because they flatter the people, in order to betray them."


4 posted on 09/18/2017 1:52:34 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: Borges

Gone Small alert...


6 posted on 09/18/2017 2:01:03 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (DACA: Their dream, our nightmare... will the rule of law prevail or not?)
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To: Borges
The central government has always been the greatest threat to liberty in America....

The federal government can be a threat and also a force for good. I can't see how we could have won WWI, WWII or the Cold War without it.

8 posted on 09/18/2017 2:55:23 PM PDT by 68skylark
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To: x

Ping.


10 posted on 09/18/2017 3:08:43 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Borges

There certainly has been a change. Read the ninth and tenth Amendments and ask yourself if they could ever pass today? Of course not; Americans don’t think that way anymore. Was the change legitimate? Well if done through Constitutional Amendments, yes. Otherwise, the change was illegitimate.

The question “Who done it?” is a good one. It’s a start. But then one must ask “How was it done?” Once those questions have been properly addressed, we can begin to ask “How do we reverse the process?”


18 posted on 09/18/2017 3:52:03 PM PDT by ChessExpert (NAFTA - Not A Free Trade Agreement)
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To: Borges

L. Neil Smith is finally justified. He wrote scathing critiques of Hamilton into his “Probability Broach” alt-history novel series. Recommended reading for libertarian-leaning FReepers, if you can ignore the Pollyannaish treatment of the non-aggression principle and other libertarian concepts.


21 posted on 09/18/2017 3:55:52 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Trump won; I celebrated; I'm good. Let's get on with the civil war now.)
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To: Borges

“I smell a rat”

Patrick Henery explaining why he refused to attend the Constitutional Convention,1788


25 posted on 09/18/2017 4:13:05 PM PDT by CapandBall
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To: Borges; All

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

The most important question that was ever proposed to your decision, or to the decision of any people under heaven, is before you, and you are to decide upon it by men of your own election, chosen specially for this purpose. If the constitution, offered to your acceptance, be a wise one, calculated to preserve the invaluable blessings of liberty, to secure the inestimable rights of mankind, and promote human happiness, then, if you accept it, you will lay a lasting foundation of happiness for millions yet unborn; generations to come will rise up and call you blessed. You may rejoice in the prospects of this vast extended continent becoming filled with freemen, who will assert the dignity of human nature. You may solace yourselves with the idea, that society, in this favoured land, will fast advance to the highest point of perfection; the human mind will expand in knowledge and virtue, and the golden age be, in some measure, realised. But if, on the other hand, this form of government contains principles that will lead to the subversion of liberty — if it tends to establish a despotism, or, what is worse, a tyrannic aristocracy; then, if you adopt it, this only remaining assylum for liberty will be shut up, and posterity will execrate your memory.

Momentous then is the question you have to determine, and you are called upon by every motive which should influence a noble and virtuous mind, to examine it well, and to make up a wise judgment. It is insisted, indeed, that this constitution must be received, be it ever so imperfect. If it has its defects, it is said, they can be best amended when they are experienced. But remember, when the people once part with power, they can seldom or never resume it again but by force. Many instances can be produced in which the people have voluntarily increased the powers of their rulers; but few, if any, in which rulers have willingly abridged their authority. This is a sufficient reason to induce you to be careful, in the first instance, how you deposit the powers of government.

So far therefore as its powers reach, all ideas of confederation are given up and lost. It is true this government is limited to certain objects, or to speak more properly, some small degree of power is still left to the states, but a little attention to the powers vested in the general government, will convince every candid man, that if it is capable of being executed, all that is reserved for the individual states must very soon be annihilated, except so far as they are barely necessary to the organization of the general government. The powers of the general legislature extend to every case that is of the least importance — there is nothing valuable to human nature, nothing dear to freemen, but what is within its power. It has authority to make laws which will affect the lives, the liberty, and property of every man in the United States; nor can the constitution or laws of any state, in any way prevent or impede the full and complete execution of every power given. The legislative power is competent to lay taxes, duties, imposts, and excises; — there is no limitation to this power…

And are by this clause invested with the power of making all laws, proper and necessary, for carrying all these into execution; and they may so exercise this power as entirely to annihilate all the state governments, and reduce this country to one single government. And if they may do it, it is pretty certain they will; for it will be found that the power retained by individual states, small as it is, will be a clog upon the wheels of the government of the United States; the latter therefore will be naturally inclined to remove it out of the way. Besides, it is a truth confirmed by the unerring experience of ages, that every man, and every body of men, invested with power, are ever disposed to increase it, and to acquire a superiority over every thing that stands in their way. This disposition, which is implanted in human nature, will operate in the federal legislature to lessen and ultimately to subvert the state authority, and having such advantages, will most certainly succeed, if the federal government succeeds at all.

In a free republic…

Brutus #1 - Anti-federalist

Check$ and Balance$?

http://www.usdebtclock.org

Current and former (Barack, Hillary, Kasich, Paul, etc., etc.) members of The Gang of 535, aka CONgre$$, should be in federal prison.

Zero “representation”.


30 posted on 09/18/2017 4:56:04 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: Borges; Pharmboy; Doctor Raoul; indcons; Chani; thefactor; blam; aculeus; ELS; mainepatsfan; ...
The RevWar/Colonial History/General Washington ping list.

Founding Father ping

Please FreepMail me if you want to be added to or removed from this low volume ping list. Ping requests gladly accepted.

Recessional of the Sons of the American Revolution:

“Until we meet again, let us remember our obligations to our
forefathers who gave us our Constitution, the Bill of Rights,
an independent Supreme Court and a nation of free men.”
Dr. Benjamin Franklin, when asked if we had a republic or a monarchy, replied "A Republic, if you can keep it."
Can we???

34 posted on 09/18/2017 6:59:51 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (#DeplorableMe #BitterClinger #HillNO! #cishet #MyPresident #MAGA #Winning #covfefe)
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To: 14themunny; 21stCenturion; 300magnum; A Strict Constructionist; abigail2; AdvisorB; Aggie Mama; ...

This may be worthy of a Federalist/Anti-Federalist ping.


35 posted on 09/18/2017 7:11:49 PM PDT by Publius ("Who is John Galt?" by Billthedrill and Publius available at Amazon.)
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To: Borges

for anyone who really cares about what Hamilton did, the book “Hamilton” is a must read. Be forewarned though, it could take weeks to read it.


39 posted on 09/18/2017 8:02:40 PM PDT by catnipman ( Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: Borges

Proto-progressivism?


43 posted on 09/18/2017 8:21:04 PM PDT by TBP (Progressives lack compassion and tolerance. Only their self-aggrandizement matters.)
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To: Borges

If you can believe Broadway, Hamilton would have been the very first affirmative action hire. /s Been screwing up America ever since.


46 posted on 09/18/2017 9:02:08 PM PDT by Let's Roll ("You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality" -- Ayn Rand)
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To: Borges

Late night bookmark.


47 posted on 09/18/2017 9:13:04 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono
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To: Borges

CONgre$$ [progre$$ive$] through abdication and/or acquiescence is complicit in this totalitarian troika [government].

eg: A recent iteration - Robertscare - unsettled law? More socialism FORCED upon U.S.

DEFUND/DISMANTLE/DESTROY (as necessary) socialist/totalitarian collectives, foreign and domestic.

live - free - republic


49 posted on 09/19/2017 12:12:55 AM PDT by PGalt
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