N.Korea's Kim says missile test was for Guam, Trump warns all options open

The Edge ^ | August 30, 2017 | Reuters

[Garth Tater]

"When exactly did the US sell arms to Venezuela? They've been hostile toward us for many years."

Up until 2006 the United States was the largest seller of arms to Venezuela. At that time the State Department blackballed them under the Arms Export Control Act for not "cooperating fully" with US counterterrorism efforts. They still fly F-16s and even though we can't sell them spare parts our allies do. Does that make our allies bad guys like Russia?

Wait a few years, every country down there that is now our "friend" will be our "enemy" - and if you wait a few more years they will flip back again the other way. It's what they do. They are all third world basket cases run by third world politicians just trying to survive another day. Labeling them as our enemies is counterproductive. Actually thinking that they are either our friends or our enemies is naive. Thinking that Russia is evil is what you do. They are just trying to survive in a world that is changing quickly under their and everybody else's feet. The Cold War is over. Nobody won.

[Garth Tater]

"were they hostile toward us as they are now when your Russian pals are currently arming and supporting them?"

I don't have any Russian pals. I do have a Venezuelan brother-in-law. He went broke in ~2007 and moved back to the States. From talking to him I'm pretty sure that the Venezuelan people are not our enemies. I know it won't set your mind at ease, but I wouldn't be too worried about Russia arming Venezuela - neither country has a spare ruble or peso to rub between their fingers.

[ETL]

So, we, the US (I don’t know what country you are from, or currently in), in 2006, was selling arms to the Chavez regime?

“Hugo Chávez repeatedly alleged that the US had a plan to invade Venezuela, a plan called Plan Balboa. In interview with Ted Koppel [Sept 2005], Chavez stated “I have evidence that there are plans to invade Venezuela. Furthermore, we have documentation: how many bombers to overfly Venezuela on the day of the invasion, how many trans-Atlantic carriers, how many aircraft carriers...”[13]

“On 20 February 2005, Chávez reported that the U.S. had plans to have him assassinated; he stated that any such attempt would result in an immediate cessation of U.S.-bound Venezuelan petroleum shipments.[15]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Presidency_of_Hugo_Ch.C3.A1vez

[Garth Tater]

Yep. And up until last week we were still sending tourists over to North Korea - you know the place with the crazy guy that wants to kill us all. And did you know, we trade with Iran! Shocker! And Cuba too!!!! What you read in the papers only rarely affects what deals are being done between countries and between companies and people even in supposedly enemy countries.

Most of the talk of war you hear on the news is just there to get the military budgets increased and to keep the local populations from noticing what dickheads their leaders are. Lil Kim is not going to blow up Guam. He can't. Russia is not going to take over the world. They can't. Venezuela is undergoing economic and political collapse. In a year or two they will be best friends again with the Yankee gringos - at least long enough to get a good deal on spare parts for their F-16s. That Cold War propaganda really got into your head good, didn't it?

[ETL]

Looks like there may be some truth in what you said, or looked up...

“since May 2006, the Department of State that, pursuant to Section 40A of the Arms Export Control Act, has prohibited the sale of defense articles and services to Venezuela because of lack of cooperation on anti-terrorism efforts.[19]”

[ETL]

Yep. And up until last week we were still sending tourists over to North Korea

That is a far cry from this...

Russia and North Korea declare 2015 a ‘year of friendship’

“The biggest cause for concern is the growing military alliance between Russia and North Korea, with the two regimes recently announcing plans to conduct a series of joint army, navy and air force exercises this year.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11463265/Russia-and-North-Korea-declare-2015-a-year-of-friendship.html

________________________________________________________________________________

Russia steps up North Korea support to constrain US

May 17, 2017

“Despite efforts by the United Nations to impose isolating sanctions on North Korea in response to the country’s continued development of nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles, trade between Russia and North Korea soared more than 85 percent in the first four months of the year.”

http://www.dw.com/en/russia-steps-up-north-korea-support-to-constrain-us/a-38867861

_____________________________________________________

From the Sino-Russian Joint Statement of April 23, 1997:
"The two sides [China and Russia] shall, in the spirit of partnership, strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/HI29Ag01.html
_____________________________________________________

"Joint war games are a logical outcome of the Sino-Russian Friendship and Cooperation Treaty signed in 2001, and reflect the shared worldview and growing economic ties between the two Eastern Hemisphere giants."

http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2005/09/war-games-russia-china-grow-alliance

[ETL]

Russia is not going to take over the world. They can't.

They are in an increasingly strong military alliance with the rapidly growing ChiCom military. They would not attempt it on their own.

[Garth Tater]

My point was that talk of war is frequently just a tool used to keep people distracted and to keep military budgets up. Russia is pissed because we put some heavy sanctions on them for interfering with our business plans in Syria and now they are getting the fat boy to talk some shit and get our Pacific fleet moving around the ocean at high speed. Those carriers ain't cheap to move around like that, you know.

Russia isn't planning on nuking us or trying to take over the world. They don't have the rubles and their people still remember how that foolishness worked out for them from their Soviet Union days. Nothing breeds a healthy distaste for Communism more than living under it for a generation or two. One of the reasons I believe the Venezuelans will be back in our camp soon. Chavez and Maduro are giving them a real hands-on lesson on what not to let your leaders do.

It has been good talking to you but I have to call it a night. See you on another thread sometime soon.

[ETL]

They don't have the rubles and their people still remember how that foolishness worked out for them from their Soviet Union days.

"the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the [20th] century" -Russian leader Vladimir Putin on the collapse of the Soviet Union...

"World democratic opinion has yet to realize the alarming implications of President Vladimir Putin's State of the Union speech on April 25, 2005, in which he said that the collapse of the Soviet Union represented the 'greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.'..."

"The more I see and read about Mr. Putin, in power since 1999, and his 'managed democracy,' the more apprehensive I become about the future of Russia and the safety of its neighbors.

If Putin believes that the dissolution of the Soviet Union into 15 independent states represents the 'greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century,' then it follows that Putin might well believe he should do something to repair the loss..."

http://web.archive.org/web/20090415000000*/http://www.hooverdigest.org/053/beichman.html
______________________________________

"The demise of the Soviet Union was the 'greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century'," Putin said in 2005.

http://www.thetrumpet.com/article/11102.30640.0.0/asia/moscow-puts-the-soviet-squeeze-on-neighbor-nations
______________________________________

______________________________________

"'The Black Book of Communism,'; a scholarly accounting of communism’s crimes, counts about 94 million murdered by the supposed champions of the common man (20 million for the Soviets alone), and some say that number is too low."

Forgetting the Evils of Communism: The amnesia bites a little deeper
By Jonah Goldberg, August 2008:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100711090651/http://article.nationalreview.com/365528/forgetting-the-evils-of-communism/jonah-goldberg
______________________________________

"Putin said Stalin deserves statues in his honor"

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131219/185734707/Putin-Says-Stalin-No-Worse-Than-Cunning-Oliver-Cromwell.html

[BlackbirdSST]

MOAB’s should be dropped in government building areas where the people will see first hand how brainwashed they are.

I don't know how many of those babies (MOAB's) we have in inventory but we should expend every last one of 'em. We can always make more.

[KC_for_Freedom]

Right you are.

Any action we plan on taking probably has to include a massive strike to defend Seoul. I do not pretend to know what we have or could use there. I also suppose there are a number of smaller steps that could be used to further ramp up the pressure on NK and China.

I don’t kid myself that there is also a stake in the world view of the bad US taking on to poor NK creeps.

I am very confident that we have a leader who is skilled at making this evaluation and I for one am all in for Trump on this issue.

It is time, as our UN ambassador has said to establish the limits of NK’s agression. No more can we push things down the road.

[Broker]

USA hackers should access NKOR missile navigation/guidance systems to re-direct launch towards CHINA.

NKOR Problem solved.