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I can't get past the part about the Bill of Rights not applying to the states. If it was never intended to apply to all levels of government, then what was the point?
1 posted on 08/17/2017 6:44:40 AM PDT by Mafe
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To: Mafe
The problem, however, is that the drive for mandated reciprocity is essentially a drive to increase federal involvement and federal control in the realm of gun policy.

The 2nd Amendment already covers it! Some states choose to ignore the 2nd Amendment!

2 posted on 08/17/2017 6:50:44 AM PDT by Road Warrior ‘04 (Molon Labe! (Oathkeeper))
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To: Mafe
The problem, however, is that the drive for mandated reciprocity is essentially a drive to increase federal involvement and federal control in the realm of gun policy.

Really? States must accept driver's licenses and marriage licenses from other states. Why not guns, which have a specific BoR's amendment!

3 posted on 08/17/2017 6:51:30 AM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: Mafe
Blah, blah, blah ...

"Gun laws" are centralized by the Constitution:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

ALL "gun control laws" are unconstitutional.

4 posted on 08/17/2017 6:54:08 AM PDT by NorthMountain (The Democrats ... have lost their grip on reality -DJT)
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To: Mafe

I see three key concepts regarding the Constitution:

1) Here is the stuff that cannot be touched by any level of government within the United States — we call this the Bill of Right. Neither Federal nor State governments can inhibit the people in these areas.

2) Here is the stuff that the Federal government is supposed to do — this is the body of the Constitution. The Federal government isn’t supposed to do much — their responsibilities can be listed on just a few pages.

3) If it’s not specifically listed in the Constitution, either as 1) Don’t touch this or else as 2) The Feds have responsibility, then the powers devolve to the states and they can choose to control or not to control other stuff — this is explained in the 10th Amendment.

Guns are covered in 1) but the stupid government lost sight of that a long time ago. “Shall not be infringed” is too complicated for them.


5 posted on 08/17/2017 6:56:32 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Islam: You have to just love a "religion" based on rape and sex slavery.)
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To: Mafe

I would prefer waiting until Ginsberg and Kennedy are replaced, and then have the Supremes rule that the 2nd Amendment is a civil right, with all restrictions subject to the “strict scrutiny” test.

Thus instantly imposing Constitutional Carry on all 50 states, followed by the Trump Justice Department indicting any official or judge attempting to restrict gun rights, under civil rights laws.


7 posted on 08/17/2017 7:06:52 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Socialists want YOUR wealth redistributed, never THEIRS!)
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To: Mafe
"I can't get past the part about the Bill of Rights not applying to the states. If it was never intended to apply to all levels of government, then what was the point?"

Which is exactly the way it was originally intended....to put fetters on the NATIONAL government, not the states. Like it or not, that is the thing the FF intended. They considered the state governments to be more defending of citizens rights than the FedGov. Legally, this changed with the Civil War and passage of the "reconstruction amendments", applying the full Federal Bill of Rights to the states.

8 posted on 08/17/2017 7:06:56 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel and NRA Life Member)
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To: Mafe

“Mises institute of AUSTRIAN economics”????

Why do you think that an AUSTRIAN economic think tank is interested in future American gun laws? Which firearm manufacturer(s) based in Austria would be interested for possible future American economic gains? With whom within the American federal government are they currying favors??

Federal concealed carry reciprocity laws are a stretch, considering that there has been a lot of work performed between the States, for THEM to recognize the other States’ concealed carry licenses.

For a comprehensive listing, here is the list from Pennsylvania:

https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/Media_and_Resources/Firearm_Reciprocity_Agreements/

I believe that a ‘federal’ reciprocity register, enacted under a Republican administration, would be used under a future Democrap administration, to the detriment of all applicants.


10 posted on 08/17/2017 7:13:55 AM PDT by Terry L Smith
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To: Mafe

What a diaper load this entire article is.

First of all, the so-called ‘legal experts’ cited in the article somehow do not agree with the concept of Incorporation of the Bill of Rights to the states.

That’s all well and good to stomp your feet and throw a hissy fit, but until a constitutional amendment is passed to overturn it or another ruling is subsequently made, a SCOTUS ruling is the final say, like it or not. SCOTUS in McDonald incorporated the Second Amendment on the states.

Second, mandatory reciprocity does not take away states rights. It simply says that any state must treat an out-of-state permit exactly the same as they treat in-state permits. If a state does not issue permits to its own citizens, then it does not have to recognize permits from out of state citizens. If it does issue permits to its citizens, then out of state citizens must follow all of the same laws, rule, regulations, and restrictions as the in-state permit.

Third, since everything else under the Sun that the federal government has done was justified under the Commerce Clause, mandatory CPL license reciprocity can easily also be justified under the same clause, perhaps even more so given our mobile society.

Ryan McMaken can politely go pound sand.


11 posted on 08/17/2017 7:20:30 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Mafe

We seem never tired of the repetition of the mantra that concealed carry permits are contrary to the constitution. But do we think our government is constrained by that piece of paper? In what dream is this true? And how does saying this ever make it true?

If one wants to conceal a weapon without a permit, please, one may shut up and do so with a clear conscience. But unless one is going to storm the jail and start shooting guards whenever anyone is arrested on a gun charge, one is not being consistent with the political philosophy and is admitting that one knows what this country is really like.

WARNING: Do not think that this person, who says, “The bill of rights never applied to the states,” is going to pay the legal costs of your defense if you get caught with a handgun in DC! McMaken is not even going to visit you in jail, unless you can figure a way to make him think that it will get him more hits on his website. You could have him come and preach his little sermonette outside your jail window so you can feel like you too are a “constitutionalist”.

The idea is to oppose national reciprocity as if that were faithfulness to the constitution. It is an effective ploy as conservatives seem nonplussed before it, and quite sinister as it effectively denies us the means to protect our selves in the name of our sacred founding documents!


14 posted on 08/17/2017 7:24:23 AM PDT by BDParrish (One representative for every 30,000 persons!)
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To: Mafe

“I can’t get past the part about the Bill of Rights not applying to the states. If it was never intended to apply to all levels of government, then what was the point?”


Neither can I. A right is only a right if it exists for all people, in all times, in all places. Thus, if my grandfathers **could** have bought a full-auto gun for cash in the local hardware store before 1934, the fact that I can’t is a violation of my rights (and too damned bad that neither one DID buy those guns and pass them down - but who had the spare money during the Depression?).

If a person licensed to carry in one state is legal on one side of an artificial line, and is not legal to do the same on the other side of that line, then SOMEONE is infringing upon his/her rights. THAT is why the 14th Amendment was passed - to ensure that EVERYONE, in ALL states, was protected by the terms of the Bill of Rights.

The Mises people are WRONG on this issue.


17 posted on 08/17/2017 7:38:03 AM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: Mafe
I can't get past the part about the Bill of Rights not applying to the states. If it was never intended to apply to all levels of government, then what was the point?

Actually many of them apply to the people, not directed at the state/states. The first amendment did not apply to the states - it specifically said that 'Congress shall not...", and therefore didn't have bearing on the states until incorporation with the 14th amendment. However, some amendments aren't Congress specific, for example the second. It simply states that the right of the people shall not be infringed. By its wording, it already prevents the states from doing anything against the people's right to bear arms.

Originally the Constitution was intended to delineate the powers and functions of the FedGov. The states should have had their own constitutions. It's only when the states started restricting rights that they shouldn't, that the FedGov got involved and started applying those freedoms to the states. Of course, nowadays it's gone more in the opposite direction.
20 posted on 08/17/2017 8:38:14 AM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: Mafe

Nope, 2a is already national in scope. All this does is force compliance by the states.

If they are for less federal meddling, target non enumerated crap that actually are states purvue, like marriage and abortion.

Watch dem lib heads go boom.


21 posted on 08/17/2017 8:54:13 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man ( Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Mafe

I smell a snake in the grass. The pink panty wetters will try to sneak in some restrictive BS under the guise of “...it’s good for us all”.

And the party of “no Cajones” will suck it up like last nights champaine.


22 posted on 08/17/2017 9:05:22 AM PDT by GoldenPup
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To: Mafe

Do individual states have a right to regulate free speech separate from other states? No. So why are individual states allowed to legislate Second amendment rights?


24 posted on 08/17/2017 10:15:05 AM PDT by vigilence (Vigilence)
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To: Mafe

Writer is wrong.
After the 14th Amendment, all of the Bill of Rights applies to the states as well.


25 posted on 08/17/2017 3:02:01 PM PDT by Little Ray (Freedom Before Security!)
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