Posted on 05/06/2017 11:13:55 AM PDT by WilliamIII
Calling all conspiracy theorists! The National Archives is set to release the last remaining top-secret files about John F. Kennedy’s 1963 assassination, in a process that could begin by this summer. The trove of some 3,600 files, mostly from the FBI and CIA, were part of the collection assembled and sealed by the Archives, on the condition that they all be made public by October 2017.
But there’s a catch: According to the same law, President Donald Trump has the ability to block the release of any or all of the documents—if he certifies that keeping them secret is a matter of national security.
(Excerpt) Read more at history.com ...
As far as the conspiracy theorists regarding LHO and who was responsible for JFK’s murder, in particular whether it was done by LBJ, CIA, FBI, or GHWB, do I really have to remind everyone that his wife was a KGB colonel?
The FBI doctored it so that the motion was consistent with a shot from behind. I remember seeing the film in 1974-5 and it was incredible. No question that the killing shot came from the right front.
I’ve caught some flack in the past for saying the kill shot came from the right front.
The Lee Harvey Oswald Texas School Book Depository Band....Tickets at the door....one show only....
None of that is true. Just the opposite.
The two doctors at Parkland hospital trying to save JFK’s life were young on-duty emergency room surgeons and not forensic gunshot wound analysts and they testified to that fact to the Warren Commission.
Their duty was to simply save Kennedy’s life and not make detailed observation or notation of trauma in post-surgery documentation after Kennedy was pronounced dead. That’s the job of a coroner’s inquest performed at great length in Bethesda Naval Hospital by the assembled members and their staff:
Commander J. Thornton Boswell, MC, USN: chief of pathology at Naval Medical Center, Bethesda.
Commander James J. Humes, MC, USN: director of laboratories of the National Medical School, Naval Medical Center, Bethesda. Chief autopsy pathologist for the JFK autopsy. Officially conducted autopsy.
Lieutenant Colonel Pierre A. Finck, MC, USA: Chief of the military environmental pathology division and chief of the wound ballistics pathology branch at Walter Reed Medical Center.
No autopsy was performed at Parkland Hospital in Dallas by Jackie kennedy’s demand. Jackie Kennedy refused to leave Dallas without her husband’s body and wasn’t outside the view of her husband’s remains until the jet carrying JFK’s corpse returned to Washington DC. Aside from the ten minutes she accompanied Lady Bird Johnson to the swearing-in of LBJ, she wasn’t out of sight of the casket her husband was placed in. This, according to wackjob conspiracy author David Lifton was the critical few minutes that a team of surgeons entered the guarded US Air Force jetliner and performed the creation of a fake head wound to JFK’s corpse to frame Oswald for the murder. Absolute madness, but people like spooky conspiracy theories so much his book became a best-seller anyway.
What does Dr McClelland of Parkland say? He was a senior ER doc and a med faculty member, I believe
Jack Ruby was an emotionally unstable burlesque night club owner in Dallas and had no links to organized crime. Numerous associates testified he was extremely heartbroken for Jackie Kennedy over her husband’s murder and proclaimed that someone should kill Oswald to get revenge. That’s exactly what he did.
He was indeed consumed with the murder of JFK and closed his nightclub for at least one day in memorial. He was very angry that other businesses in Dallas wouldn’t do likewise. He spent the next several days hanging around the Dallas police department’s municipal jail listening in on press conferences, tugging the sleeves of reporters, asking questions of officials, and pressing policemen he knew for inside information. Again, because of Ruby killing Oswald police departments restrict secure areas where high profile criminal defendents are held and they seek to prevent obsessed looky-loos from trying to access them.
Ruby did indeed correct the name of Oswald’s self-styled pro-Castro organization as “The Fair Play for Cuba Committee” but by then the name of Oswald’s little one-man organization was known around the world through the news media. It would have been like correcting a public official’s mispronounciation of “Al-Qaeda” three days after the 9/11 attack.
What part did you want to discuss?
You are doing a good job on this.
The Doctors at Parkland never examined him fully, they saw him laying down on his back only from what I heard.
Thanks. But it’s been a long time since there was semi-serious discussion about the notion of conspiracy. Many of the elder students who defended the Warren Commission report have long since left FR. All of the best detailed threads are in the FR archive from well over a decade ago and are not easy to find. This site only attracts pro-conspiracists now. I hardly visit here anymore. I’m coming up on my 20 year anniversary here and I have lots less enthusiasm for debate of this kind.
Yes, the doctors at Parkland were merely there to save Kennedy’s life and not to preseve forensic evidence of the assassination. The emergency tracheotomy they performed on the president obliterated the exit wound from Oswald’s first shot. The Parkland doctors didn’t notice the entrance wound in Kennedy’s upper back that matched the exit wound below his larynx. Neither did the Bethesda autopsy examiners until later in the process. The Bethesda examiners also didn’t notice that the back wound wasn’t just in the upper dermis until they surgically explored deeper from the front and realized it was a wound channel and not caused by the emergency tracheotomy performed at Parkland. They rolled JFK over and confirmed that the thick skin of his back could be moved upwards to reveal the bullet channel below the skin that exited where the tracheotomy was performed. The bullet nick in JFK’s necktie confirmed it.
Bethesda was also where the autopsy first noticed bullet fragments of lead and copper/nickel (”cupro-nickel”) from the 6.5x52mm Carcano projectile in JFK’s skull and detatched skull fragment. The US nuclear lab proved the composition of the fragments here molecularly matched the copper/nickel alloy manufactured by the Western Cartridge company’s manufacture for that specific lot to the exclusion of all other manufacturers of surplus 6.5 Carcano ammunition. Moreover, they found molecular evidence these fragments travelled through Oswald’s specific rifle barrel.
What beggars belief is that conspiracists will proclaim evidence of an astonishingly well-executed conspiracy which frames Oswald as a patsy then they can somehow turn about and rationalize that the controllers of the conspiracy staged the most unlikely evidence with which to frame him: “the world’s worst shoulder rifle” (why, it wasn’t even capable of firing a single round, much less hit a barnside ten feet away!) placed in the hands of an incompetent boob who somehow managed to serve as a qualified rifleman in the Fleet Marine Force even though he was allegedly unqualified on the USMC Known Distance range. Or Oswald was an expert KGB/CIA/Mafia assassin.... or, no: he was downstairs buying a soda pop when he innocently heard the commotion going on outside. No, it must have been a grand conspiracy involving thousands of winking co-conspirators from the Dallas police department (Officer JD Tippett executed himself to protect the conspiracy, plus he had marital troubles didn’t you know? He was also a KGB agent for extra points) up through the FBI, JFK’s limo driver, the Secret Service, the US Air Force men who brought JFK’s body home, Jack Ruby and the Judaiac-Italian Mafia synagogue of Texas, the entire forensics staff of the US Navy’s medical department command, three hobos, the CIA, the KGB, and hired Cuban hitmen pretending to refinish the floors in the buildings of the Dallas school board district. All of them patiently waiting for the signal to expertly carry out their assigned duties in the most fantastic paramilitary operation in history. And they all died with the secret. Golly, why didn’t they just poison JFK’s food?
Well, this is the kind of unresearched babble that serious students of the murder of JFK are accustomed to in debating conspiracy buffs who latch on to a smorgasbord of wild claims generated by no end of competing conspiracy authors, some more capable than others of course. They just get to pick and choose their alleged facts even if there’s zero evidence to support them or even more miserably that they’re regurgitating long abandoned conspiracy claims proven to be wildly untrue: George Herbert Walker Bush was at the TSBD! See my grainy picture for proof! OH, that person was identified as a Dallas shoe salesman in a much clearer photograph? And he’s still alive and says it was him? Neeeever mind. There’s just wagonloads of this kind of manure.
Sure, I’ll take on anything. As a former conspiracist knothead myself I usually can make their case better than they can because I know where it comes from and I might even have the book.
Did your school have practice drills in case of a nuclear bomb attack?
We did but were too young to understand how fruitless most of it would have been in the event of a real attack.
The idea of putting heads down to keep us from looking out the windows had some merit though.
If you go to “Google Images” and search JFK bullet wounds or JFK autopsy, you will see photos taken while he was on his stomach or side. Not pleasant.
Thanks for that information. I also didn't know about the bullet samples. I was looking at old photos of Bush and the stance, etc. is similar. And his comment that he couldn't recall where he was (if that quote is true) is really odd. But I was thinking about it more - that if he was involved, and if he was in Dallas at the time, but didn't want anyone to know... well why would he be standing next to the door to the book building as dozens of police are walking in and out, etc. It just doesn't make any sense.
Chuck Colson said something about the resurrection of Jesus Christ when arguing against a man-made conspiracy that stole Jesus’ body and claimed that He was resurrected. Something like “Five of the top men in the world couldn't keep their stories straight or their mouths shut about a stupid burglary - but the 12 disciples and the Roman soldiers were able to do it!? No way.”
I think the same applies to the JFK assassination, multiplied by a hundred with all of the various players involved.
I love conspiracies though. I think lots of people do. I wonder why that is? To try to make “sense” of things - especially tragic things. That there was some “purpose” behind a death, 9-11, Katrina, etc. rather than some lone gunman or accident or freak of nature. Of course 9-11 had a purpose and has an explanation without going for the conspiracy theory. (Heck - it WAS a conspiracy by a bunch of muslims).
I like to think it is just being inquisitive on my part and looking at all the angles. But I'm guessing that there is something psychological behind it. (And no - not just because I'm nuts!)
Well, thank you and I understood the point you made before this paragraph above.
But to be honest here I've entirely thought the complete opposite view in contrast to your own for quite some time about the Christian Gospels in relation to how the early Christian canon was constructed by Christian redactors in the first few centuries following the death of Yeshua/Jesus in comparing how and why JFK conspiracists are willing to believe what they think they do.
This thread certainly isn't the place for it, anyway. Sorry to disappoint, but at least your wheels are spinning.
I’m looking at bing images at pictures of the young George Herbert Walker Bush, per quick analysis, I think his forehead was too big to be the man standing outside the Texas School Book Depository building. I will just link.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1677/433/1600/bush%20at%20school-book%20depository.1.jpg (TSBD)
http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/us_navy_pages/aircraft_carriers/george_h_w_bush_cvn_77/pres_bush/1940_00_00_bush.jpg (Young GHW Bush, his forehead was always too high and this was during wartime, so in the 1940s) http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/5500573eeab8ea3c33583937-1200/prescott-and-dorothy-had-five-children-one-of-whom-would-elevate-the-familys-political-status-to-its-highest-level-yet-his-name-was-george-herbert-walker-bush.jpg
The TSBD picture more like Dubya’s hairline along with the shape of his head. Then, they have those photos of Dubya supposedly walking in Dealey? Really?
One thing is certain and as a general comment and not about this discussion or anyone here, if Conspiracists get pinned on one item as being out of whack, it tends to hurt the cause.
Boy talk about swallowing the Kool-Aid. Ruby had an extensive history with the Mafia going back to the 1930s when he was a part of the Goon Squad attacking union members and officers opposing the Mob takeover of various unions in Chicago. He was sent specifically by the Outfit to infiltrate the Police Department in Dallas.
In fact, during the 50s he was part of a Mob gun running scheme to arm anti-Castro rebels. He was also part of the Mob’s earlier arming of each side of the Revolution prior to Castro’s victory. It is inexcusable to keep spreading the LIE that he wasn’t part of the Mob. His immediate boss in Dallas was Joseph Campsi under the overall control of Marcello. Marcello hated RFK and JFK. He was heard by FBI informants promising to kill JFK. Killing RFK was not done because his power flowed from the President and such a deed would have increased ten fold the attack on the Mafia. As Marcello was heard to say “Killing RFK would be like chopping the tail off a mad dog, when the head would still bit you.”
Jack Ruby did not have a patriotic bone in his body and was an ordinary street thug who could have cared less about Jackie or any woman (other than his sister). Indeed, his business was based on the degradation and exploitation of women.
His behavior prior to shooting Oswald was a combination of a huge consumption of uppers earlier and the realization that he might have to get in even deeper when Oswald avoided being killed.
Any concern about a trial of LHO was limited to the fact that any trial would unravel the involvement of the Mob and the CIA in the anti-Castro plots.
I suppose you don’t even believe there is such a thing as the Mafia.
She was the niece of a GRU officer, kind of a FBI equivalent.
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