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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

“Note that you’re using a verse and an argument that Augustine specifically addressed and refuted, thus proving my point that Augustine’s position is different from the Catholic church.”

It doesn’t prove that at all. Again, the problem is not St. Augustine. It’s just how you’re viewing him. Protestants do this with Augustine all the time - they try to isolate him as if he held the same views as Protestants (which he did not).

And what you posted from John Paul II is in no way “universalist”. Notice, he does not say that everyone is saved. “Universalism” is about everyone being saved not everyone having access to grace. A man need not have free will if he is somehow foreordained to have no possibility of access whatsoever, to grace. Yet St. Augustine believed in Free Will: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1510.htm


190 posted on 04/01/2017 7:57:13 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: vladimir998
It doesn’t prove that at all.

It's literally the exact opposite of what you're teaching. You teach salvation is available to "all" people. Augustine says it isn't, and that "all" only means "all kinds of people, the wealthy, the poor, the old," etc.

And what you posted from John Paul II is in no way “universalist”. Notice, he does not say that everyone is saved.

At this point I think you're just being intentionally obtuse.

195 posted on 04/01/2017 8:36:28 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: vladimir998
Again, the problem is not St. Augustine. It’s just how you’re viewing him.

Again, the problem is NOT the words of Jesus; it’s just how you’re INTERPRETING Him.


CAll no man father...

220 posted on 04/02/2017 4:41:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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