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To: VTenigma; Swordmaker

it stalled immediately and the result was catastrophic. This lends evidence to your scenario.

...

According to the NTSB the cargo shift occurred at rotation. The aircraft did fly and gain altitude until it stalled. Swordmaker claimed an unbalanced aircraft with a rearward shift in the center of gravity can’t fly or gain altitude. I offered the video as a counterexample.

The NTSB report is here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1501.pdf


208 posted on 06/23/2016 9:56:36 PM PDT by Moonman62 (Make America Great Again!)
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To: Moonman62

I should noted that 2 seconds was too much. One would have to have removed the nose of the plane in the video , which probably (due to friction) would have limited the ‘time’ it could ‘climb’ (continue on the same path due to momentum) to about 1 second or less.


221 posted on 06/23/2016 11:13:37 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lost my tagline on Flight MH370. Sorry for the inconvenience.)
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To: Moonman62

Nobody knows how the weight shift proceeded, the vehicle may have had the parking brake set, the tie downs may have let go at varying rates, cargo stacking could have affected the weight transfer, lots of variables. To assume the weight transfer was instantaneous thus the plane went immediately into a stall and continued to climb through the stall defies logic.


230 posted on 06/24/2016 4:24:19 AM PDT by VTenigma (The Democrat party is the party of the mathematically challenged)
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To: Moonman62; ml/nj; Roccus; gaijin; batterycommander; CodeToad; Doogle; bobby.223; VTenigma; GBA; ...
According to the NTSB the cargo shift occurred at rotation. The aircraft did fly and gain altitude until it stalled. Swordmaker claimed an unbalanced aircraft with a rearward shift in the center of gravity can’t fly or gain altitude. I offered the video as a counterexample.

No. Did you even read the NTSB report in its entirety? I did. That accident was a complex cause accident which also involved the destruction of the hydraulic controls to the rear control surfaces which prevented the pilots from gaining control of the aircraft. The event initiated when the aircraft started its take off climb under full power to the engines and was only 33 feet off the ground, when one or more of the very heavy military vehicles it was carrying broke free and shifted to the rear of the cargo bay breaking the rear bulkhead, and along with it the hydraulic lines and data cables to the 'black box" data recorders. Even so, it was still under lift for a VERY short time before stalling because they had power to their engines (I was wrong, the recording from the windshield camera did pick up a faint engine sound under enhancement according to the NTSB report).

The entire flight, according to the NTSB record, from time the wheels left the ground through stall, and crash was a mere 33 seconds. From what I have been able to learn about that take off, it is quite normal for planes to use a very quick, steep take off after roll out from Bagram due to the very real threat of ground-to-air missiles. What was shown was a normal Bagram climb out take off until the initiating event and an almost instantaneous stall condition as the plane lost pitch. proper angle of attack, and hence lift. After the aircraft stalled, it did not fly. If fell like a rock. No lift occurred at all.

245 posted on 06/24/2016 1:14:16 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
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