Trump’s ‘voterless’ election myth

Washington Post ^ | April 18, 2016 | Marc A. Thiessen

[reaganaut1]

Donald Trump is complaining that Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) is racking up “voterless” victories in states such as Colorado and Wyoming, where delegates are chosen by a “small handful of elites” who are “sidelining” Republican voters.

This is dead wrong. In both Colorado and Wyoming, all registered Republican voters in the state had the chance to vote and participate in the delegate selection process.

The Wyoming Republican Party website explains the process clearly: “Delegates to the state convention are elected by the county conventions. Delegates to the county convention are elected by precinct caucuses in their respective counties. Any person registered to vote Republican as of the call for precinct caucuses in a given precinct may vote in that precinct’s caucus” (emphasis added).

In other words, there is a whole lot of voting going on. All Republicans in Wyoming had the chance to go to their precinct and vote for delegates who support their preferred candidate. And they did so in record numbers. In Laramie County, for example, the lines ran out the door on Super Tuesday, and turnout was up almost 400 percent compared with 2012. “The lines outside, they are amazing,” said Glen Chavez, a first-time caucus-goer. “If you’ve never taken part in something like this, get involved. If you want to make the difference, you make the change.”

The same was true for Colorado. Under Article XII of the Colorado Republican Party’s bylaws, any person who is a resident of a precinct for 30 days and is a registered voter “affiliated with the Republican Party” for at least two months can vote in a precinct caucus. Any such person can also run for delegate.

[RitaOK]

There are no established rules you can name that encourage or defend fraud, suppression or subversion against the candidate of the people’s choice for their nominee.

Not in the RNC Rules. Anti-democratic representation of “Rules” is not a virtue, except in the minds of true tyrants and fascists.

[D-fendr]

Your view would lead towards easy internet voting. We’d be moving toward President Kanye West. Not my choice. :)

>>>They don’t like indirect democracy.

The Founding Fathers did. For good reason.

[dragnet2]

+1 Rita.

And all that has emboldened those motivated to manipulate elections. They’ve had lots of experience and they got it down to a science.

[Scutter]

I think anyone would have to concede that the GOP was NOT on the way to picking an “outsider” before Trump entered the race, and that we all, including Ted Cruz, owe Trump a debt of gratitude for not allowing the GOPe to serve up a Jeb Bush candidacy and manufacture a Clinton-Bush re-run to bring back those neocon glory days of the 1990’s

I disagree. The establishment choice (Yeb) was going nowhere and was polling very low well before Trump entered the race. The only thing I will attribute to Trump is that he raised the border/illegal-immigration issue to a level which it had not previously received.

[nathanbedford]

You Trump people have gone to the very edge of claiming a criminal conspiracy, certainly a nefarious intention to deprive people of a vote. The evidence before us has been supplied by the Republican Party and it shows that everyone was given a chance to vote, just as Donald Trump was given a chance to compete.

Mere allegations of voter fraud, or even malicious intention and dark suspicions are not evidence. The burden is on you to come forward and show where the process is contrary to the statement put forward by the Republican party. No such documentary evidence exists apparently. If there were evidence of withholding time and place of voting, your litigious candidate, Donald Trump, could easily bring on one of his notorious lawsuits, but he has not done so

Now you want to substitute anecdotal evidence for proof. Your personal experience might or might not be relevant but it is certainly not dispositive. Even if we believe you, an anonymous source, offering no particulars whatsoever, it does not mean that you simply didn't make an honest mistake and could not locate the time and place because of ignorance or incompetence-no personal insult intended.

I am "seriously maintaining" that if there was "hanky-panky" you gotta prove it, it is not up to Cruz or his supporters to disprove it or to prove the negative.

[Scutter]

Except that Cruz is not anti-establishment, he just acts like he is, then he votes for Corker, TPA and won’t say anything about enforcement of immigration laws until recently. His answer a year ago was that we would have a conversation about the 30 million illegal aliens already here after the border was secure. Sounds suspiciously like McCain/Grahma/Yeb!/and the rest of the Cheap Labor Express traitors.

What it sounds like is the right thing to say to win the general election. How can anyone disagree with securing the border? Trump provides lots of red meat to you and I, and as satisfying as it is to hear someone say it, not everything he says is aligned with a path to victory.

[xzins]

Yep. What I figured. That’s not really bright, imho.

[dragnet2]

The only thing I will attribute to Trump is that he raised the border/illegal-immigration issue

Wrong.

If not for Trump it was going to be Bush VS Hillary Clinton. That was the plan, and Hillary would have been elected. If not for Trump, this is exactly what would have occurred. Nothing would have altered it.

Btw, Trump has done more to change this business as usual corrupt political landscape and bring to the forefront many country killing issues, than any candidate in modern American history.

This includes destructive one sided country looting trade laws, reckless dangerous legal chain immigration policies, and never ending failed foreign polices which cost Americans trillions, which have all but left Middle America dead on the floor.

[RitaOK]

If internet voting is Diebold style, count me out.

Personally speaking I like the written paper ballot. The Republic is worth the effort of a pencil, a paper trail and a record, and so long as people can still count and all of the candidate’s representatives can view the count, there are fewer daring “accidents” that can occur.

You are right about the Founders and “for good reason”. It’s the two hundred year standard of practices that deserves a review.

“Delegates” were selected, under the Founders, for their knowledge, not so much their proclivity to commit fraud and suppression, right?

[Scutter]

Wrong.

If not for Trump it was going to be Bush VS Hillary Clinton. That was the plan, and Hillary would have been elected. If not for Trump, this is exactly what would have occurred. Nothing would have altered it.

Another great example of the type of post I mentioned previously: no facts, just assertions. Trump is like a religion to some of you folks...

Go back and look at the polling numbers. Bush was floundering well before Trump got in. It was never going to be Bush.

[kabar]

It is similar to the way the communist party operates in the PRC and the former Soviet Union.

[dragnet2]

no facts, just assertions.

Really, so this election was not ginned up for Hillary Clinton prior to Trump, because you have no proof in writing? Did you expect the disciples of deceit in D.C. to spell that out for ya?

You sound like Hillary.

Do you deny Trump has done more to change this business as usual corrupt political landscape and bring to the forefront many country killing issues than any candidate in modern American history? You deny this? Really?

Do you deny Trump has totally brought to the forefront these destructive one sided country looting trade laws, reckless dangerous legal chain immigration policies, and never ending failed foreign polices which cost Americans trillions, which have all but left Middle America dead on the floor.

You deny all this?

[D-fendr]

>>>The Republic is worth the effort of a pencil, a paper trail and a record

It’s worth effort in voting too. I’m not for easy-peasy voting. Particularly when deciding the party’s candidate. I like the caucus/convention; it rewards deep support, organization and ability to manage a campaign nationwide.

>>>“Delegates” were selected, under the Founders, for their knowledge, not so much their proclivity to commit fraud and suppression, right?

The delegates to the constitutional convention were selected by their state’s legislature. In TrumpLogic, these were voterless elections.

[RedWulf]

>I was disappointed (again) that Trump didn’t make the minimal effort that would have earned him the Wyoming delegates and the larger effort that would have brought him loyal delegates in NC instead of unwilling delegates bound only on the first ballot. Does anyone think Trump could not have found 1,000 registered Republican supporters in Wyoming who would have attended the Wyoming Caucuses if he had tried? Anyone? Does anyone think Trump could not have found many thousands of supporters to pack these NC meetings if he had tried? I don’t like caucus rules, but I blame Trump for not learning the rules and at least trying.

The GOP would have kicked most of them out or played games taking away their votes just like they did in Colorado. The game is rigged and we know it.

[sargon]

If you want to stand on the side of the crooked party elites, go ahead.

Rush Limbaugh, just a few days ago, oiutlined exactly how Ted Cruz was benefiting from the "greased skids" setup instituted in states like Colorado.

These arrangements were specifically designed to exclude outsiders like Ron Paul, Donald Trump, and Ted Cruz.

Far from having a "good ground game", Ted Cruz is simply reaping the reward for having become the new GOPe darling, since Jeb Bush was unexpectedly squashed like an insect by Donald Trump.

The arrangement is Colorado is inherently unfair, and in obvious disregard for the will of the voters, unless you want to assert that Donald Trump has 0% support in the state.

Perception is reality, and the fact that this swindle was "by the rules" is totally irrelevant. Yes, it was "by the rules". And the rules were CROOKED.

So I hope the Ted Cruz fanboys keep talking about this swindle and keep it in the minds of the GOP electorate, because the optics hurt Ted Cruz and help Donald Trump. Trump is a lot more savvy than some give him credit for. He turned lemons into lemonade in this case.

Colorado Delegates Speak Out On The Steal

Ted Cruz has lost. He will have been mathematically eliminated after the next Tuesday or two. His only hope was to get the nomination at a contested GOP convention, which would irreparably splinter the party, and guarantee a GOP defeat in November.

Simply put, that's not going to happen. Not even the crooked GOPe is that stupid.

Vote Trump

[FreeReign]

Yep. What I figured. That’s not really bright, imho.

It's up to the candidate's organization to tell the caucus goers which delegate to vote for. It's not really bright on a candidate's part not to do that, IMHO.

[BfloGuy]

Perceptions are reality.

No. They are not.

Reality exists independent of our perception. The goal of education is to perceive reality as it is.

A goal we've obviously failed at in the case of Trump.

[dsc]

“The evidence before us has been supplied by the Republican Party and it shows that everyone was given a chance to vote, just as Donald Trump was given a chance to compete.”

What are you talking about? Republicans in Colorado were intentionally denied a chance to vote. The CO GOPe didn’t even bother to hide what they did.

“The burden is on you to come forward and show where the process is contrary to the statement put forward by the Republican party.”

Well, I offered you something that would be admissible in court, but you dismissed it. I don’t think you have any justification for that.

“If there were evidence of withholding time and place of voting, your litigious candidate, Donald Trump, could easily bring on one of his notorious lawsuits, but he has not done so”

I am saddened to say that you are not being reasonable. What documentary evidence would there be of withholding time and place? That is what makes this particular sort of skullduggery so insidious: it is notoriously difficult to prove a negative. In addition, it is easy to think of reasons why Trump might not wish to sue, regardless of available evidence.

“Now you want to substitute anecdotal evidence for proof. Your personal experience might or might not be relevant but it is certainly not dispositive.”

Eyewitness testimony is admissible in court. Your cavalier dismissal of my word is less than I would have expected of you.

“Even if we believe you, an anonymous source, offering no particulars whatsoever, it does not mean that you simply didn’t make an honest mistake and could not locate the time and place because of ignorance or incompetence-no personal insult intended.”

That is a reasonable statement. However, there are enough such reports that it is still incumbent upon those who want to defend the process to check into it.

“I am “seriously maintaining” that if there was “hanky-panky” you gotta prove it,”

And in the meantime you are willing to stake your credibility on my being wrong. Okay. But you might want to reflect that the situation in Colorado stinks to high Heaven.

[FreeReign]

It is similar to the way the communist party operates in the PRC and the former Soviet Union.

Actually in China and the former Soviet Union, the centralized government controlled party would pick the delegates.

In WY and CO it's the non government controlled Republican party that allowed in the rules any person to run as a delegate at the precinct level.

[thirst4truth]

Where are the teaparty? What has happened to Free Republic? If you want to exact change, like we did in 2009 after BHO was elected, you have to go to the local R meetings.

What is wrong with all you Trump supporters, you cannot fight the R party unless you infiltrate on the inside. I did, I became a precinct committee chairman and was on the ballot got elected have more power than before. then was elected to serve on my countys Republican central committee, the ones who have the county power and then the state power to exact change.

All you Trump supporters cried in 2009 about unfair R party against us poor teaparty, why did you all not do something about it? I have a full time job and 20 rentals still my priorities were changing the R party from within, starting at the county level.