Holding my tongue until
after Iowa-New Hampshire
Posted on 01/14/2016 6:00:17 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans
Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay told Newsmax TV on Wednesday that Ted Cruz might ultimately "end up in the courts" on the question of his citizenship and how it might affect his presidential campaign. "I've had this problem ever since Cruz announced," DeLay, the five-term Texas Republican who served from 2003 to 2005, told "The Steve Malzberg Show" in an interview.
"There is a difference between the definition of natural born and naturalization — and it has not been settled by any branch of government. "Cruz needs to address this in some way because it is a cloud right now in Iowa," DeLay said. [...]
DeLay, however, told Malzberg that the "most expedient" way for Cruz to settle any questions is to work through the courts. "You can't do anything through Congress," he said. "Congress isn't going to pass any bill to protect him — and I'm sure [President Barack] Obama wouldn’t sign anything. "He's going to the courts if he's the nominee. The Democrats will use every avenue available to them.
"They sued me over a valid issue," DeLay said, referring to a 2006 lawsuit brought by Democrats after he dropped his re-election bid. "They'll sue him. "He'll end up in the courts one way or another."
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
Understood.
What if they just said it, in the context of another ruling? what if they said it more than once, and in more than one way, where the statement has no effect on the case in hand? Said another way, what if SCOTUS says a citizen at birth, by 8 USC 1401(g) is naturalized, as a matter of law?
I understand that you hold otherwise, but what if your opponent in argument wasn't cboldt, but was SCOTUS. Still laughing?
You can blow me off as a gas-bag if you want (not saying you did, I'm poking fun at myself), but there are deciders out there who will look at Rogers V. Bellei with more legal skill than you or I have, and it literally says "the acquisition of citizenship by being born abroad of American parents ... in the exercise of the power conferred by the Constitution to establish an uniform rule of naturalization." and "the Court has specifically recognized the power of Congress not to grant a United States citizen the right to transmit citizenship by descent." and "The proper emphasis is on what the statute permits him to gain from the possible starting point of noncitizenship, not on what he claims to lose from the possible starting point of full citizenship to which he has no constitutional right in the first place." and so on.
I for one have a difficulty on this issue, because it seems so unfair. I can understand why, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger would be ineligible to run for the presidency. But Cruz is the son of an American citizen for goodness’ sake. If Cruz isn’t a natural born citizen, what do we say to the foreign-born children of diplomats or military folks? You serve your country but then your child is a second class citizen because they were born abroad? It makes no sense and you can add children of American missionaries and business people living abroad.
This is definitely a problem for Cruz.
You have to take your like of a candidate out of the equation and so few will do that right now.
Try it this way. Do you want an Arab Prince who is a direct descendant of THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD to be eligible to run for POTUS.
What about a Duke from England? Should he be able to run?
Surely, people can understand that James Madison might not want a Duke of Marlborough to run for POTUS
Oh, hell, nevermind the rest of my argument. It's pointless.
For some reason, the claims of a guy whose career highlights include taking bribes from a convicted felon (Jack Abramoff) just don’t carry much weight with me.
“You have to take your like of a candidate out of the equation and so few will do that right now.”
I’m actually not fully decided who I’m going to support.
“Try it this way. Do you want an Arab Prince who is a direct descendant of THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD to be eligible to run for POTUS.
What about a Duke from England? Should he be able to run?”
I’m afraid I don’t see your point. Neither of those are descended of American parents. What I’m saying is that if one or both of your parents are American citizens, you really should be a natural born citizen, regardless of where you were born. A foreign born immigrant should NOT be allowed to be president, but someone descended of American parents (or parent) should be allowed. I think that’s only fair and since the Constitution says ‘natural born citizen’ rather than ‘you MUST be born in the United States’, this should be in effect.
There ARE quite a few states, as you stated, that could do that and some pols who would sue too.
TRUE !
You're gonna short circuit many of those Cruz supporters and they'll end up needing treatment and psycho-therapy.
What can I say... "keep up the good work."
You aren’t up to speed.
An Arab Prince who has studied at Harvard and completed part of his residency requirement has a woman who is/was an American citizen as his mother. Oh ,and he is a direct descendant of the Prophet.
Winston Churchill, who almost became Duke of Marlborough and was offered Duke of London, has an American Mother.
I don’t know how people think that James Madison would want Duke of Marlborough as President
There is a caveat with the Arab Prince. His mother MAY have given up her citizenship before his birth. But just pretend for the sake of argument that she did not. And she may not have done it in a FORMAL way.
“There is a difference between the definition of natural born and naturalization...”
What’s his point here? That is roughly equivalent to saying there is a difference between butter and oleomargarine. Even most of those who say Cruz is natural born realize there is a difference between natural born and naturalized, they just don’t seem to understand what natural born is. Of course some actually do seem to think that a naturalized citizen should be eligible.
After Obama, maybe he just figured it wouldn't matter. He forgot the democrats have different rules for themselves.
I didn’t realize you were talking about specific people - you mentioned ‘dukes of England’. I think what you’re missing is the intent of someone with dual citizenship. When Americans live overseas for extended periods, they are advised to always show their intent to remain American citizens (i.e., have a Social Security number, keep your US passport up to date, vote in US elections by absentee, do not fill out naturalization papers to a foreign country, etc).
But when it comes to the people you mention, you’re missing the point of intent. I think that’s why one of the constitutional requirements is that an American citizen must have lived in the country for at least 15 years - something which neither Winston Churchill nor the prince likely qualify for. Winston Churchill obviously chose to be British. I’m not sure which ‘Arab Prince’ you’re referring to but if he’s chosen to live in Saudi Arabia or wherever he’s from, his intent doesn’t seem to want to be American. That said, if they choose/had chosen to live in America as Americans, then yes they should be allowed to run for President if one of their parents was an American citizen. I certainly don’t support the idea of a Muslim becoming president but the law is the law.
I pose to you this question: the quintessential American tough guy Bruce Willis was born in Germany to an American father and German mother. By your logic, I assume you’re saying that he’s a German immigrant and not an American and should thus be barred from being president?
I agree with you that someone being foreign born does complicate things a bit, but it should be judged case-by-case. In Ted Cruz’s case, it’s crystal clear that he intended on being American citizen and he grew up here and has been a public servant both in Texas and now in Washington. To suggest that he’s somehow not American enough to be president just seems very unfair.
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An excellent piece of trolling by our most despicable troll.
BTW, Is Delay out of Prison now?
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I agree with you that someone being foreign born does complicate things a bit, but it should be judged case-by-case. In Ted Cruz’s case, it’s crystal clear that he intended on being American citizen and he grew up here and has been a public servant both in Texas and now in Washington. To suggest that he’s somehow not American enough to be president just seems very unfair...
The US Constitution did now strive to be “fair” or suggest that it be judged on a case-by-case basis. It strove to set up a guide for a new country, it was by it’s nature inclusive and meant to be that way. The solution to all who dislike the way the constitution is written as is meant to be followed is simple. Move to a country whose constitution is more inline with the way they think.
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>> “Unless someone can produce naturalization paperwork that made him a citizen later in his life, he’s natural born” <<
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Yes, this is the salient point in this Trolling game, and one that all the spammers seem to miss.
Without such documentation, no court can even accept a case.
The Trumpets get crazier every day.
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