Posted on 11/30/2015 7:09:09 AM PST by FR_addict
This morning, Steve Doocy (Fox & Friends -11/30) said he saw Muslims celebrating on television & his neighbors said they saw them with their own eyes. He lives in NJ.
Bret Baier cut him off, said there weren't 1000's like Trump said.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I'm sure if you saw it, you will remember. It was so strange and I have never heard a person or animal make that kind of noise.
That is in Palestine.
Where is the NJ video?
You are exactly right. I can’t stand him. He is so GOPe all the way.
Yes...proof will surface to certify that Donald Trump is telling the truth, 100%!!! I hope & pray, that DT already has it....but, is waiting to drop his truth bomb on Obamabot, vermin, media, low life, lie tellers that they all are!!!
They are all quoting Jerry Speziale as Chief of Police in Patterson, for saying no Muslims celebrated on 9/11.
Except that Speziale was not COP of Patterson and was elected sheriff of Passaic cty where Patterson is in November of 2001.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Speziale
WIKI:
Early life
Speziale was born in the City of Paterson, New Jersey to Gerardo Speziale, a barber and Barbara Speziale, a paralegal.[4] He grew up in Wayne, New Jersey.[4][8]
Law enforcement career
Speziale joined New York City Police Department (NYPD) in 1983. In 1986, he was shot in the arm during a shootout with an addict who had taken hostages.[9] Speziale later worked as a detective on the narcotics squad, and befriended future NYPD Commissioner Bernard Kerik.[4][8][10] During the 1990s, he became an undercover agent for the DEA, and was a member of the DEA’s “Group 93,” which was tasked with fighting Columbian Drug Cartels.[4][10][11] Having reached the rank of first-grade detective, Speziale retired from the NYPD on a disability pension in 1997, citing injuries. He returned to police work at the Bergen County Sheriff’s Department, and served as the Chief of Police for New Hope, Pennsylvania for five months in 2000, before running for Sheriff of Passaic County in the November, 2001 elections.[8][12][13]
Passaic County Sheriff
In November 2001, Speziale was elected Sheriff of Passaic County, New Jersey.[8] Although he had campaigned for republican candidates in 1999, Speziale ran as a democrat, and replaced republican Edwin Englehardt, who had served as Sheriff for 27 years.[4] He was re-elected Sheriff twice, in 2004 and 2007.[14]
In August 2002, a federal law enforcement official told the New York Times that Speziale had “destroyed” an FBI investigation into a man who was believed to have sold false identification to the September 11 hijackers. Federal officials were upset that Speziale did not inform the FBI about the raid, had publicly released details of the FBI’s investigation, and had invited reporters to accompany police on the raid.[15] Shortly after the raid, New Jersey’s Attorney General ordered all local law enforcement authorities to get permission from a special liaison before seeking terrorism-related search warrants.[16] The incident reportedly led to a “deep chill” in relations between the US Attorney’s office and Speziale’s staff. Until the raid, the Sheriff’s department and the FBI had been investigating jointly.[17]
Speziale also came into conflict with Passaic County freeholders (county legislators) and the state Civil Service Commission over the number of patronage appointments that he was allowed to make as Sheriff. The dispute centered on whether supervisors should count as sheriff’s officers when calculating the number of “at-will” investigators the Sheriff could hire. Initially, the state civil service commission and county freeholders accused Speziale of exceeding his budget by making an excessive number of patronage appointments, ordering him to fire eight investigators who had been hired in addition to the 20 “at-will” officers already added to the force.[8][18][18][19] In March 2011, however, the New Jersey Civil Service Commission changed its stance, ruling that supervisors should count as sheriff’s officers, and that Speziale had been within his rights to when he hired the eight additional officers. By that time, Speziale had already left the Sheriff’s office and the number of staff had been reduced.[20]
Why didn’t they ax me, I saw them celebrating here in Oklahoma.
That FOX has turned on their loyal fans is a dirty shame. Having been a solid fan for eons - seldom watch any longer. It took time and there were withdrawal pains....but now the fact they are not seen is a non threatening solution. Out of sight - Out of mind.
GO TRUMP! GO CRUZ!! YOU WIN OR WE LOSE!!
Exaggeration or no celebrations at all? Did you read the article I linked to you? Do hundreds of witnesses constitute a fabrication? There were contemporaneous articles in the MSM (including the WP) mentioning the celebrations on the rooftops comparing them to tailgate parties. Is the number the issue or the fact that the celebrations took place?
How many people do you think have to be in on the conspiracy to "scrub" all clips from the various TV station archives, YouTube, etc? I'd say it has to be well into the thousands, all rallied and coordinated within a day after Trump made the claim.
There were news reports at the time mentioning the celebrations. There were clips showing the celebrations overseas. There may be some in the US that have yet to be unearthed. No doubt, the MSM would like to keep them quiet the same way the LA Times never released the video it had of Obama cavorting with a radical Palestinian professor.
Occam's Razor suggests that when numerous people, using their first and last names in a public forum, and providing concrete details that can be checked, all provide similar accounts of public behavior, chances are they are telling the truth. It is possible that all of these people, as Kim LaCapria suggests, are suffering from false memory syndrome, or are all attempting to whip up murderous hatred against Muslims, as Benjamin Wittes accuses, but neither LaCapria nor Wittes provides any support for their smears.
Cui bono directs us to consider "who benefits" from a statement. New Jersey has one of the largest Muslim populations in the US, after Michigan. New Jersey's Muslim population constitutes the second highest, by percent, in the US, after Illinois and above Michigan. New Jersey Muslims wield political clout. Note Republican Governor Chris Christie's nomination of Sohail Mohammed for the New Jersey Superior Court in spite of intense pressure, and Christie's dismissal as "crap" any concerns that New Jerseyans might have about sharia law. Note also that a New Jersey judge ruled that a Muslim man had the basis to beat, torture, and rape his 17-year-old wife because he believed that Islam granted him this right. Muslim political clout may explain why so many empowered voices insist that the 9-11 celebrations never happened. Too, no decent New Jerseyan wanted to see retaliatory attacks against Muslims in our state. Many speculate, and some report as fact, that police, journalists and local officials downplayed or denied Muslim celebrations to protect Muslims from retaliatory attacks. In contrast, those who insist that they witnessed Muslim celebrations have nothing to gain by making these statements publicly, and everything to lose. First, many of those speaking out now have no public record of making these statements previous to this controversy. They saw what they saw and they kept it to themselves, or told only those closest to them, for the past fourteen years. It is only the attempt to expunge this historical fact from public memory, and to smear and disgrace anyone who speaks this truth, that caused witnesses to come forward. They are average New Jerseyans simply telling the truth in the face of a wave of censorship and demonization that could cost them their friends or their jobs.
Are accounts of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating 9-11 consistent with other verified data? Indeed they are.
Palestinians make up a large percentage of Paterson's Muslim population, so much so that the neighborhood where the 9-11 celebration is alleged to have taken place is sometimes nicknamed "Little Ramallah." Local businesses are often named for Palestinian landmarks, for example the Al-Quds restaurant, Al-Quds Halal meat and the Al-Quds bakery. Paterson has a large Hispanic population; there are businesses with the provocative and irredentist name of El Andalus Discount Store and Andalus Islamic Fashion. Paterson Palestinians are not shy about expressing their opposition to Israel, see here. Indeed, Paterson's City Hall famously flew the Palestinian flag. One Paterson resident, Moneer Simreen, is quoted referring to Palestine, not the US, as "our country." Americans, Tariq Elsamma said, "need to obey our needs because we are a large community." Paterson's mayor, Jose Torres, wore a kaffiyeh and supported making Ramallah Paterson's sister city.
Even those who deny that any American Muslims celebrated 9-11 acknowledge that Palestinians overseas did celebrate the attacks. Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are familially related to Palestinians in Paterson.
Further, polling data indicate that there is not inconsiderable support for terror among some Muslims, with support varying by group. In a 2005 FAFO Foundation poll, a significant percentage of Palestinian respondents supported "Al Qaeda's actions like bombings in USA and Europe." A 2013 Pew Poll found that 40% of Palestinians support suicide bombing in defense of Islam. In the same poll, only one percent of Muslims in Azerbaijan voiced support for suicide bombing.
Finally, we know that six of the 9-11 hijackers lived in Paterson, NJ, and they used the computers of a nearby campus in planning their attacks.
From the link in your article where they reviewed Facebook posts the radio station had solicited :
"A close examination of the comments finds very few people describing events they say they witnessed firsthand - well under 1 percent. None describe celebrations in the thousands. Some attribute celebrations to other cities, most commonly Paterson, home to one of the larges Muslim populations in the United States. (Note: Paterson's police director has told New Jersey 101.5 police have no records of any such celebrations being reported to them, and vehemently denies any celebrations took place)."
None of them support Trump's claim of thousands in Jersey City.
I have no trouble believing there were some people celebrating in New Jersey and I know there was TV coverage of Muslims celebrating in the Middle East. I don't believe that Trump saw thousands celebrating in Jersey City, either in person or on TV.
I honestly don't think Trump's mis-speaking, either from faulty memory or exaggeration, matters much one way or the other. What I find fascinating is the contortions Trump and his supporters put themselves through trying to deny the obvious.
The problem with all of this is that the apologists want you to think that American Muslims think and act differently from Muslims of other countries. That just isn’t true.
Islam is the same wherever you go because the Koran is the same wherever you go.
He's not the best educated, and he doesn't know it.
He obviously has not educated himself about islam, or history.
He hasn't read anything that has sunk in. Not Bernard Lewis, Not Robert Spencer, not Joan Peters, not John R. Schindler.
He probably thinks that islam is a religion, the way he and most others see religions.
When a muslim says, "we" he means, the Ummah Islamiyyah, most easily understood in the vernacular as religiously fanatic "The Borg." And the mandatory means of spreading their religion is unconditional violence and physical conquest. There is no other religion like it. Certainly not as envisioned in the U.S. Constitution.
So infinite ignorance breeds infinite imbecility : "islam is the religion of peace!"
Bret Baier simply doesn't know any better. And he doesn't know he doesn't know.
Ambition and narcissism simply take over from there.
The obvious and documented truth is that there were celebrations by Muslims in NJ over 9/11. It is the MSM that is denying that any of it happened. Why would the NY Post delete from its online archives this story?
Those with TDS will try to make an issue of everything Trump says, trying to pick it a part for the slightest flaw or hyperbole. In the meantime, we have a President and Hillary lying outright about undisputed facts whether it is about Obamacare or Benghazi. If the liberals and those with TDS didn't have double standards, they would have no standards at all.
Trump's heresy is saying that American Muslims celebrated the incineration of thousands of their fellow citizens at the hands of radical Muslims. It is true, but we must now quibble about the numbers. The public must be kept in the dark by their political betters so that they can be more easily manipulated. We still have not seen the redacted portions of the 9/11 Commission Report describing the evacuation of Saudi nationals from the US days after 9/11. From the article I linked to you:
People whom I trust told me that they witnessed the celebrations. None agreed to be named here. They know that speaking this truth in public sets them up for attack. One witness is my former student. He is an Italian-American, an A student who attended class regularly and handed in assignments on time. He is a responsible adult who worked during the day and took courses at night. Almost a decade ago, during a long conversation that touched on many topics, he told me of the celebration he witnessed. He named the location, the public library on Main Avenue.
Another witness was a prominent figure in Democratic politics, in which I used to participate. His account was similar to my student's account. The two men don't know each other. A third witness permits me to quote her here. "I stopped for gas in Belleville immediately after the second fall and there were two men in the station cheering at the TV coverage as if they were watching the Super Bowl and their team was winning." I have known this woman for years. I have to rely on her in financial and other matters. She has never lied to me.
That conversation has yet fully to emerge. We are still too afraid of saying politically incorrect things. This censorship isn't just a bad thing for non-Muslims. It's a bad thing for Muslims as well. Those who witnessed the 9-11 celebrations, their friends and loved ones see much effort being exerted to smear and silence them, and to negate the historically important truth they speak. This silencing will only increase resentment against Muslims. An open and free public conversation will serve everyone's best interests.
What we need is frank speech. We need to talk to our Muslim fellow citizens about why some of them celebrated on 9-11. And we need to – through speech – convince those who celebrated 9-11 that they are mistaken. The day that we do so will be a good day. We delay that day by denying that these celebrations ever happened.
How can this really matter? Everyone know the muslims were elated everywhere round the World. Whether there was video of it in NJ or not I could not care. The only significance to this story is that someone can contradict Trump on something he said.
“So, the real Americans are “nut jobs”?”
Of course not. Nut Jobs are the ones that would go commit terrorism against the Muslims in our country. “Real Americans” don’t commit acts of terrorism against innocent people, even if they are attacked.
I don’t think they should have covered up the celebrating Muslims in our own country. They could have dampened it by interviewing all the Muslims who say they didn’t believe in the terrorist acts. (If they could find them.)
We have to know the enemy. They have a lot of footage of Muslims celebrating in other parts of the world. Why would the Muslims in our country be any different. Trump’s critics haven’t explained that to us. They were obviously told not to broadcast local celebrations and had to broadcast the rest of the world.
CNN had Rudy Giuliani on this morning. He said Trump was wrong, but then he said there were incidences in New York that happened. He started off with pockets of 10 to 12, then raised it to 30-40 people, then said that there were a handful of these incidents. So now we have about 5 incidents of about 20 people each. So Giuliani is admitting that there were probably about 100 Muslims celebrating in New York. He also said they were watching the Muslim areas to keep Muslims safe. That seems to have been their priority.
How many would celebrate in New Jersey with a much bigger Muslim population.
I think the police logs of that day would be interesting for NY and NJ.
In the days following 9/11 I saw news segments of Muslims celebrating around the world,shooting in the air,handing out candy,and women doing the rolling tongue screech.
Excellent post.
I didn’t know the Muslims in New Jersey were mostly Palestinians. I guess that is why with a wink and a nod, the reporters covered Palestine, since they weren’t allowed to cover NJ Palestinian Muslims. Nor did I know that 6 of the hijackers were from Paterson, NJ.
Did Trump lie about this? NO, to many people seen it, and if all these people seen it, you know the news people were right there filming it”
I think it was scrubbed long before Obama. As Giuliani said, their priority was protecting the Muslims. One of the first things Bush did was declare Islam, a Religion of Peace.
Even here, FreeRepublic would not let me put up a thread with facts about the Muslim religion right after 9/11. There was nothing wrong with the thread and I could easily put up a similar thread a few weeks later. I guess they were afraid of retaliation to Muslims. No one wants to help Nut Jobs. But we have to be honest with who our enemy is.
Mohammed was a pedophile murdering terrorist. The moderate Muslims are the ones who don’t follow the teachings of Mohammed. The moderates make excuses and go through contortions to tell us what Mohammed really meant.
“The problem with all of this is that the apologists want you to think that American Muslims think and act differently from Muslims of other countries. That just isn’t true.
Islam is the same wherever you go because the Koran is the same wherever you go.”
Very true! Our friend was Muslim and said 50% of his Mosque supported the 9/11 terrorists. This was in North Carolina. He also said in other Mosque, it was more like 80%. This was a devout Muslim, who went back to Pakistan. He used some convoluted thinking on how a Muslim could be a Muslim and not follow Mohammed’s teachings about infidels. He said something about our President could be considered the head of the Caliphate in America. Weird, but it made him feel better. He was a good man just raised in the Muslim cult. We should be identifying Islam for what it is, a religious cult.
“Similar to the ‘fact cleansing’ that happened right after the Murrah Building bombing in Oklahoma City.
For the first hour afterward, officials were looking for several ‘Middle Eastern looking males’ who were seen in the area.”
—
They had a sketch of Timothy McVeigh which matched him exactly and a sketch of a Middle Eastern guy that was said to be with him. That sketch disappeared. We also never saw the videos around that building.
An interesting side story was the Murder of Jesse Trentadue, who the FBI mistakenly thought was the Middle Eastern guy connected to the OKC bombing. His family won a wrongful death award.
It’s funny how we all remember that face all these years later. The face of a Muslim celebrating the 9/11 attack.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.