Pastor And Seminary Teacher Who Was Outed As Member of Ashley Madison Commits Suicide..

Daily Mail (UK) ^ | September 8, 2015 | WILLS ROBINSON

[Steelfish]

Pastor And Seminary Teacher Who Was Outed As Member of Ashley Madison Commits Suicide Because He Carried Too Much 'Shame' John Gibson, 56, taught at the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminar Was on the list of 32million names released after the huge hack in August His wife Christi said he felt shame, but insisted she would've forgiven him Gibson had also suffered from addiction and depression in the past By WILLS ROBINSON 8 September 2015

A pastor who was outed as a member of Ashley Madison has committed suicide. Father-of-two John Gibson, a teacher at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminar was found dead by his wife after his name was one of the 32 million released during the cyber hack last month. The 56 year old is just one of many purported users of the extra-marital affair site who are believed to have taken their own lives after the huge release of names by online criminals .

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[rikkir]

Thank you again Bob, your words are eloquent and helpful, and I am in a much better place about this now than I was last night. I had one of those chats with the BIG GUY today, and I believe I have a firmer grasp on what all were telling me last night.
When it first started last night it seemed like those responses I mention, essentially again accusing me of not being a good enough Christian. Thankfully God let you and a couple of others respond with actual help, instead of snarky accusatory words.
Your words, and some others, helped me see a weakness in my belief, that in the light of day has strengthened it.
I try to watch for God’s hand in all things, and it never ceases to amaze me how apparent it is if we open our eyes.
This morning I realized that I saw God’s hand twice yesterday.
The first was Kim Davis being released right at the start of that rally in Carter Co., KY yesterday. Talk about an obvious intervention from God on behalf of one of his believers. The second was my learning process from last night
Thank you again for the help.

[Gene Eric]

>> At that point he was not in his right mind.

No doubt.

[Bob434]

[[I try to watch for God’s hand in all things, and it never ceases to amaze me how apparent it is if we open our eyes.]]

You know, it’s like we see an unseen world- where God’s fingerprints and plans are just so obvious that it’s hard to understand how some people can’t see what should be the obvious-

[imardmd1]

Read the last verse of that chapter, that Jesus Christ saved Paul by grace through faith, and not of his own works, which is what the beginning of the chapter is all about. He cannot save himself by "obeying" the law with his own mind.

The consensus of reliable commentators is with my analysis:

Adam Clarke:

Verse 14: " 'But I am carnal, sold under sin' - This was probably, in the apostle’s letter, the beginning of a new paragraph. I believe it is agreed, on all hands, that the apostle is here demonstrating the insufficiency of the law in opposition to the Gospel. That by the former is the knowledge, by the latter the cure, of sin. Therefore by I here he cannot mean himself, nor any Christian believer: if the contrary could be proved, the argument of the apostle would go to demonstrate the insufficiency of the Gospel as well as the law."

Verse 24: "We may naturally suppose that the cry of such a person would be, Wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this dead body? And how well does this apply to the case of the person to whom the apostle refers! A body - a whole mass of sin and corruption, was bound to his soul with chains which he could not break; and the mortal contagion, transfused through his whole nature, was pressing him down to the bitter pains of an eternal death. He now finds that the law can afford him no deliverance; and he despairs of help from any human being; but while he is emitting his last, or almost expiring groan, the redemption by Christ Jesus is proclaimed to him; and, if the apostle refers to his own case, Ananias unexpectedly accosts him with - Brother Saul! the Lord Jesus, who appeared unto thee in the way, hath sent me unto thee, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. He sees then an open door of hope, and he immediately, though but in the prospect of this deliverance, returns God thanks for the well-grounded hope which he has of salvation, through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Marvin Vincent's Word Studies, Verse 14: Carnal (σάρκινος)

Lit., made of flesh. A very strong expression. “This unspiritual, material, phenomenal nature” so dominates the unrenewed man that he is described as consisting of flesh. Others read σαρκικός having the nature of flesh.

Sold under sin

As a slave. The preposition ὑπό under, with the accusative, implies direction; so as to be under the power of.

John N. Darby (re verses 4 and 14)

"Such then was the effect of the law, that first husband, seeing sin existed in man. To bring this out more plainly, the apostle communicates his spiritual apprehension of the experience of a soul under the law.
We must remark here, that the subject treated of is not the fact of the conflict between the two natures, but the effect of the law, supposing the will to be renewed, and the law to have obtained the suffrage of the conscience and to be the object of the heart's affections — a heart which recognises the spirituality of the law. This is neither the knowledge of grace, nor of the Saviour Christ, nor of the Spirit."

Matthew Henry (re verse 24)

"The law may make a man cry out, O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me? and yet leave him thus fettered and captivated, as being too weak to deliver him (Rom_8:3), give him a spirit of bondage to fear, Rom_8:15. Now a soul advanced thus far by the law is in a fair way towards a state of liberty by Christ, though many rest here and go no further. Felix trembled, but never came to Christ. It is possible for a man to go to hell with his eyes open (Num_24:3, Num_24:4), illuminated with common convictions, and to carry about with him a self-accusing conscience, even in the service of the devil."

==========

Albert Barnes doesn't like this at all, but is wrong in my own opinion; and falling between these is

Jamieson, Fausset, Brown:

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual — in its demands.
but I am carnal — fleshly (see on Rom. 7:5), and as such, incapable of yielding spiritual obedience.
sold under sin — enslaved to it. The “I” here, though of course not the regenerate, is neither the unregenerate, but the sinful principle of the renewed man, as is expressly stated in Rom. 7:18.

======

I believe Matthew Henry says it well, the idea that a man may be renewed in mind yet not saved; that is, a convert as Peter was before Pentecost, but not reborn in the Spirit, as Peter and some 119 other converts were when the Holy Ghost came upon and into them, on Pentecost, a gracious gift of New Testament salvation that cancels the penalty of sin, negates the power of sin to compel the regenerate believer-disciple, makes one abhor the preference of sin, and at physical death removes even the presence of sin so that one can enter the joy of God's habitation.

You can't have it both ways at once -- freed from the power of sin yet sold out to sin. Impossible.

Of course, there is an ongoing debate about this, but like the Beloved John and Apostle Paul, I don't think one can habitually ignore the Spirit's call to confess and abandon a sinful behavior without receiving chastening from the Father, if one is His born-again child (1 Jn. 1:9. Heb. 12:8,11). Where is the chastening of the Father mentioned in Romans 7?

You might want to note that the Holy Spirit is only mentioned twice in Romans before 8:1, but profusely thence forward. You cannot say that the human of Chapter 7 was controlled by the Holy Spirit at all, or was even indwelt by Him.

[D-fendr]

Thank God that God doesn’t change- even when people change their minds after salvation

No matter what they change their minds to? Satanism?

To me this is obviously wrong theology and wrong scripturally. I think if we are this far apart, I have to say let's leave it at this: that we disagree.

Thanks very much for your courtesy and discussion.

[GBA]

Wow...I went through some stuff and it was hard, but your story beats mine and then some.

I think if you and Job ever get together over a bottle of Jesus's wedding day finest and swapped some stories, Job would say the same thing I did.

The hardest part of my last few was not so much the events that knocked me down, that's just life.

The hardest part was, as soon as I got up off the mat, the next one would come outta nowhere and knock me down again.

After a few of those, not only did I not want to get off the mat anymore, I found that I was becoming/had become, not the person I set out to be, but the person I used to make fun of when my life was on the way to becoming "perfect" and so was I.

Unfortunately (fortunately?), life took a few detours on me when I was playing with my new GPS and not paying attention and then my attitude ran a light and got totaled by the turnip truck my common sense fell off of.

Pain, loss and adversity can be good teachers, but your thoughts about counselors are much better than my "don't bother anybody with it" thoughts and go it alone lifestyle through the sh!t storm have been.

[fortheDeclaration]

Romans 7 isn't inconsistent with Romans 6.

Romans 6 explains the two natures of the believer.

The choice to yield to the Holy Spirit or not (Ro.6:16)

Romans 7 explains the battle that goes on between the two natures.

Romans 7 is a saved man dealing with sin in his life.

[cva66snipe]

A guy I was in therapy with {a combat vet with PTSD} asked me if I was Job that was from a round of previous stuff I didn't even mention. I saw my daughter in a wreck thought she was dead, second life almost died from med reaction, and I was in a wreck {minor one I thought} didn't din't my old K-5 but totaled the Honda Accordion that hit me. The woman had in infant in a car seat up front. I went to check on them and damage and baby looked dead. No thank GOD it was asleep. A very near miss on vacation involving two tractor trailers, plus the previous ten years event combined with the neurological issues all crashed at one.

I was on an interstate. Wife and I took a long weekend and were driving home. All of the sudden I didn't know where I was, where I was going, why I was there. how long, nothing. I was terrified.

My wife looked over at me and screamed "what's wrong with you". Geesh was it that obvious? She was helpless because she could do anything. But the brain is an amazing thing. It still functions when you don't. 20 minutes later I was getting back to normal. I laugh now. It's called a sensory processing crash one of many I would have until I got on the right meds and learned how to head off the attacks.

When a person is going through the storms that keep coming it seems like they won't ever end. Rain, wind, high seas beating you up. But all storms do end. That's what you have to always remember. Who is the Master of the seas?

Twelve men who knew Jesus, had seen His miracles, and He sent them out alone in a boat and a storm hit. Here come Jesus walking on the water toward them about 4:00am in high seas. We know what Peter did. Even though he obeyed and stepped out of the boat he saw the storm and began to sink. Jesus knew he would. I would have sank. Seas can kill. Job's test? How could a man withstand what he did? Everyone and every thing gone. Job was saying if I could only go before him and plead my case. Others were trying to find his sin that caused it all to happen rather than help him really. Job's test is very hard to grasp. I pray to never face that great of devastation. GOD healed him and restored his loss plus much more. His storm ended.

I thank GOD that in my own health it is what it is and not what I feared. I was thinking several things were going on and where I worked I'd seen a lot of it. Stroke. They ruled out. M.S. they ruled out. Brain Tumor also. They did every test they had nothing. Then off to the psychiatrist. Wrong pills, wrong diagnoses, pills making things much worse. Then an answer. A simple book linking the symptoms of my disorder fitting like a glove to my entire medical history & my especially Inner Ear issues as a kid. With knowledge came acceptance and the right medication.

My spiritual life falls short at times. I do not attend church. It would not be enjoyable for me and I would disrupt services. I've been three times in the past 21 years twice for funerals and once for my daughters wedding. All three times I had to load up on the meds and still sat there jerking away. Family gatherings inside a house same thing I have to take extra Xanax. But there I can go in and out as needed and not disrupt a service. At home I can pick up a guitar and stop the attacks. That is the things therapist teach you. I didn't realize that something that simple would stop the jerking, help me to relax, and cheer me up, but it works. Best part is I don't have to concentrate, think, or be perfect at it LOL.

Prayer is difficult most the time. So is Bible study. My favorite prayer place is ten miles away on a riverside path. Walking and praying. It also gets me out of the house.

A drastic change in lifestyle and thinking from where I was about 35 years ago. I did some things that weren't too bright and by the Grace of GOD made it through. I could have became an alcoholic as a recreational drinker. My grand dad was up til his last ten years. I could have gotten addicted to drugs I could not put down. I didn't crave the dangerous stuff nor try it thankfully. Pot? Oh yeah. Then I just got tired of it. Cigarettes? Two packs a day for about 6 years. Cursed things killed Sis eventually.

Today I keep some wine in the fridge. Same bottle over a year now. A 5 pack of small cigars with the tip for when I go fishing. That's my vices. The dumbest thing I ever did? On a stupid dare at a club on base I started downing double shots of Jack #7. I walked over a mile back to the ship and blacked out. That never happened again. GOD kept me from dieing that night I reckon.

For some people the journey from the time Christ finds you till the time in your life you can see just how in poverty you were in when he did can be a long one. It is a life long changing process in growth.

My wifes both of them were blessings. The first one taught me patience and true love for someone. My second wife made me grow up fast. Thankfully she was seven years older than me I would discover after it was too late LOL I was 28 she was 35. I thought she was maybe 28-30 and we ate lunch together at work. She talked about her babies as she called her kids. Then I started thinking thems not babies. I asked her how old are they? She said 12 & 14. I asked her how old are you and she said 35. I think she thought I was going to say Bye. Nah. Despite what happened to her before we got married she truly was the biggest blessing in my life next to salvation. First year or two was kinda rough due to all the adjustments for all of us.

I've made more mistakes and fallen in my life than I can now remember. Some I also wish I could forget. But I know they are forgiven. Even a couple of near misses on the ship one of them involving my mom back home thousands of miles away who told me to jump. I did right as the windshield I was leaning on smashed the ladder to a deck house. It destroyed the windshield section and would have killed me.

How did I know it was my mom? I didn't really at that time. I shrugged it off. Things happen. Boat crew was dangerous. Several things. I only heard my first name. The guys I worked with on boat crew were Bosun Mates not Snipes did not know my first name. They knew my last one and a nickname I went by my chief gave me. I came home off deployment and dad picked me up. Driving home he asked me did you have a close call one night? I had to think and said I had one about 7:00am one morning a couple months ago. I told him about it. He said at about 1:00 or 2:00 am your mom sat up in bed yelling for you to jump. A four to five hour time difference put it at about 7:00am where I was in the MED Sea and in port on duty that morning fixing to get relieved which was why we were there.

GOD works in many ways. Ones we can't understand and things we do not even know about. We ask for, look for, and watch for, the big miracles. Yet it's the smaller ones sometimes we don't recognize at the time that even may seem bad at first that bring us the richest blessings.

[imardmd1]

Romans 7 is a saved man dealing with sin in his life.

So, verse 14 describes a saved man? One who is carnal, fleshly, enslaved to Sin as a master?

I don't think so.

[fortheDeclaration]

Yes, Romans 6:16 says that whosoever you yield to you are it's servant.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or obedience to righteousness.

The believer is either under control of the flesh or the Holy Spirit.

[imardmd1]

ALIVE OR DEAD? (click here to read the explanation)

You can begin to get the idea of the above, that the state of the man of Romans 7:14 is outside the circle of Grace, but you should read through the complete description of this chat by clicking on the legend above. That will take you to the Happy Heralds site, with lots of information on this chapter which is troublesome to those whose evangelism style is based on "easy believism" rather than on discipleship.

[imardmd1]

Yes, Romans 6:16 says that whosoever you yield to you are it's servant

My FRiend, that's not just "servant" who decides which orders he's going to comply with. That is doulos in the Greek, meaning "bond-slave"; that is, God saved me from being a bond-slave completely owned by Satan to being a bond-slave of His Son, completely purchased by His Blood. Believe me, a bond-slave is not free to pick and choose what he will or will not do for his master. The bond-slave of Christ does not yield himself to sin. (Mt. 22:14, 1 Cor 6:19,20)

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

I am seeing that he was a teacher but can not find a mention of what church he was a pastor of.

[GBA]

Wow...again(!)...you're just not going to change my opinion, are you? Lol...that's a lot of things most don't deal with, nor ever have to think their way through.

From your attitude and ability to deal with things as they come, I think the sh!t storms have served you instead of beaten you as they so often do with so many.

In my youth and my jealousy of other people and their God-given gifts that God didn't give me, I wouldn't have envied you and your tests.

However, the older I get and the closer I get to my own graduation day from this Schoolhouse Earth that God built for us, I do appreciate, admire and respect your growing mastery of the courses and subject material. I think you've made the honor roll!

Thank you for telling me about your mom telling you to jump. Stories like yours don't surprise me. They comfort me and confirm my beliefs about how the Schoolhouse Earth matrix is programmed.

[Bob434]

Chrsitians are protected against demon possession- while a person may think He’s a ‘disciple of Satan’ He’s not- He’s deluded

Satan can NOT possess the born again person’s soul- it’s impossible- The Christian’s soul is occupied already by God

You Spirit is SEALED by the Holy spirit upon Salvation- Satan can not break that seal- God tells us so in His word

It is obviously a very very bad deal for a misguided Christian to fall into a Satanic cult- however, that person is still savedf and always will be- However, God may take that person out of the world much sooner because of that person’s disregard for God (or He may not- We don’t know How God works sometimes)

[Bob434]

[[The believer is either under control of the flesh or the Holy Spirit.]]

I guess the carnal Christians that Paul spoke of were unsaved then? King David was unsaved? Lot? Sampson? The Ephesians? The Corinthians? etc etc etc- all were ‘serving the flesh’

And ‘being under the flesh- simply means unsaved- it does NOT mean ‘falling into sin’

We need to stop this strict “If you sin, you are unsaved”

Christians DO OBEY God’s commands- not all of them, not perfectly, but NO MAN obeys God’s commands perfectly or wholly

Christians need to understand that sinning does NOT mean you are a ‘bondservant to the Devil”- While we sin- we STILL DO obey many of God’s commands- something that unsaved people do NOT do because the spirit of God is not in them- they may practice some of these things, but they do so out of selfish reason, not out of obedience to God- these unsaved people are NOT bondservants to God and feel no spiritual obligation to obey Him- Christians o n the other hand DO obey many of the following

Love Your Neighbor

Render to Caesar

Bring In the Poor

Be a Servant

Honor Marriage

Forgive Offenders

Beware of Covetousness

Go to Offenders

Despise Not Little Ones

Deny Yourself

Honor Your Parents

Fear Not

Beware of False Prophets

Do Unto Others

Do Not Cast Pearls

Judge Not

Lay Up Treasures

Love Your Enemies

Go the Second Mile

Keep Your Word

Do Not Lust

Await My Return

There are more commands Christians of ALL maturity levels obey EVEN THOUGH they may not have a command over some specific sins yet

[Bob434]

[[which is troublesome to those whose evangelism style is based on “easy believism” rather than on discipleship.]]

That’s ok- Paul speaking ot the Corinthians who were CARNAL Christians is problematic to those who preach ‘lordship salvation’ And King David is troublesome to htose who preach lordship salvation, Lot is troublesome, Abraham is troublesome, Sampson is troublesome, Backslidden Christians spoken of in God’s word is troublesome to those who preach the heresy of lordship salvation

So what’s your point?

[Bob434]

[[those whose evangelism style is based on “easy believism” rather than on discipleship. ]]

Lol- King David was an adulterer, fornicator, and murderer, Yet He was called a man after God’s own heart- Would be kidna hard to call him a ‘disciple’ while he was living in sin eh? Yet He was defiantly saved the whole time-

As well, the church of Corinthians was living in sin- Yet Paul called them ‘brothers’ and ‘Babes in Christ’- He did NOT call them unsaved, or ‘easy believes evangelists who were deluded into thinking they were saved when they ‘really weren’t”

[D-fendr]

a person may think He’s a ‘disciple of Satan’ He’s not- He’s deluded

Or perhaps he was deluded when he thought he was a disciple of Christ.

I understand the concept of OSAS, but I think it is obviously unscriptural and presumptive of God.

Thanks for your post.