Taking down ‘The Donald’

The Marietta Daily Journal ^ | August 13, 2015 | Patrick Buchanan

[2ndDivisionVet]

If his Republican opponents will not take down Donald Trump, Fox News will not only show them how it is done. Fox News will do the job for them.

That is the message that came out loud and clear from last Thursday’s debate in Cleveland, which was viewed by the largest cable audience ever to watch a political event — 24 million Americans.

As political theater, it was exciting and entertaining.

But what was supposed to be a debate among the top-10 Republican candidates turned into a bear-baiting of Donald Trump.

Make no mistake. The issues Fox News raised were legitimate.

Trump’s threat to run third party, his remarks about women who have affronted him, the bankruptcies that four of his companies went through as he built his real estate empire — these are all fair game.

What was wrong here was that it was not his Republican rivals raising these issues or taking on Trump. It was the Fox News “moderators” of what was supposed to be a candidates’ debate. They came into the arena to do to Trump what his GOP rivals have been too timid or reluctant to do.

Chris Wallace and Megyn Kelly came with their oppo research done and attack questions prepared — to sack Trump in the end zone and send him to the locker room on a stretcher.

When did that become the job of a “moderator” who is supposed to be more of a referee than a middle linebacker?

Who decided to turn the first Republican presidential debate into a two-hour version of “The Kelly File”?

With the exception of Rand Paul on the opening question about Trump bolting to run as a third-party candidate, no Republican chose to follow up the Fox News attacks on Trump that were disguised as questions. They let Fox do the wet work.

The anger of Trump and his followers that he was being singled out and sandbagged is understandable, even if his reaction revealed that Fox News had drawn blood. Indeed, this debate will be recalled in political lore as the night Fox News tried to take down the Donald.

Did they succeed?

According to an NBC poll, taken in the 48 hours after Cleveland, Trump held first place and rose a point to 23 percent. Sen. Ted Cruz had vaulted into second place with 13 percent. Dr. Ben Carson had risen to No. 3 with 11 percent. Carly Fiorina, who was not in the top 10 a week ago, is now fourth with 9 percent.

Together, these four outsiders can claim the support of well over half of all Republicans, while the beltway favorites — Marco Rubio at No. 5, Jeb Bush at No. 6 and Scott Walker at No. 7 — can together claim less Republican support than Donald Trump alone.

Who won the debate? According to the NBC poll, it was Carson, Trump and Cruz in that order.

With a real opportunity to capture the presidency in 2016, those leading in the race for the GOP nomination seem to be among the least likely to amass 270 electoral votes. But those most acceptable to the establishment seem, as each month passes, to generate less and less enthusiasm.

Yet, what is now clear is that the Republican establishment wants Trump out of this race, and, frustrated at his continuing strong support, is less and less willing to wait for him to implode.

Over the weekend, we heard talk of a Kasich-Rubio ticket, or vice versa. Yet, in that NBC poll, Kasich remains dead in the water after the debate, dropping from 3 to 2 percent, while Rubio is at 9 percent.

A real danger is emerging here of the split inside the GOP deepening and widening. For if it is seen that Trump has not been rejected by the voters, but driven out the race by the establishment and the elites, the value of the nomination will be vastly diminished.

Thus far in this presidential season, the rise of the Republican outsiders, insurgents, nonpoliticians and anti-politicians reveals how far the people of the United States are estranged and alienated from their political leadership.

In the Democratic Party, too, we have seen the rise of outsider-insurgent Socialist Bernie Sanders to within single digits of Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire, and the fall of Clinton to where she is underwater in the polls on issues of trust and, “Does she care about people like me?”

If there is one lesson to be taken from this run-up year to the presidential campaign of 2016, it is that a huge and growing segment of the nation does not want what the establishment of either party has on offer.

And as insurgent parties spring up all over Europe, and the two-party system disintegrates there, the Europeanization of American politics may be at hand.

[Leep]

Bingo, that is why his comment means that he will continue to support abortion.

If the money is fungible then how is eliminating Plan Parenthood stopping government funded abortion?
I am all for shutting P.P. down. However, won’t the fungible money just be channelled into another women’s health service?

[HarleyLady27]

If Trump does go third party....there will be no GOPe party left...it will be gone...

The dems only hope right now is Uncle Joe, and Sanders and Donald can eat them up and spit them out...

The only other one of the candidates that Trump will protect is Cruz...while he might put Carson, and some others in government postions...Perry is gone, Paul is no treat, and the girl has jumped the shark over to the dark side, and Jebby, after running out of the campaign event like he did, show him 10 thugs and he’ll pee his pants and run back to ‘mama’...

But Trump says he won’t go third party unless the reps don’t treat him fairly, which they have backed down over the fox news embarrassment...

[itsahoot]

If the questions were so intellectually dishonest, why were Trump's answers so inept?

Because he is an addle brained gadfly.

I am more interested in some of our so called geniuses trying to figure out what makes him so popular, but then they might have to yield to the citizens they are supposed to serve.

Those people that are so enamored of Trump will vote for someone whether Trump gets the nod or not. So how do you figure you can bring those voters in the fold by calling their favorite an idiot and his supporters morons?

Cruz is not participating in this nonsense and neither should you, just be patient.

[nathanbedford]

You are taking the time to advise me, your humble observer, not take the time to address the campaign of a man who might become president United States and who is currently convulsing the Republican Party and dominating the media?

But I agree with your overall theme, Trump must have the arc of his rocket flight. I'm on record here as having called the turn before the debate and predicted it would be the beginning of the end of Trump's campaign. I think that is being borne out, the trends seem to indicate that he is slowing, topping and in fact sliding.

It is worth spending time on the Trump phenomenon because conservatism should be a movement of ideas and only secondarily a movement which latches on to an individual no matter how superficially attractive he or she might be. We all have sinned, all fall short of the glory of God and we are all born in original sin. Every candidate in every elected official will fall short somehow, someday. I am not enamored of any candidate, not even Ted Cruz, my support for him is relative to other candidates but I like to think that that support is related to his coherent and consistent relationship to conservative principles. I think it is necessary to point out to those who might listen that Trump does not represent those principles. There are many who support Trump today who will be looking around for an alternative tomorrow.

Cruz is wise not to attack Trump, and it is in keeping with his commitment to Reagan's eleventh commandment not to criticize Republicans. The candidates need surrogates to point these things out on their behalf. That is the role in a campaign of a vice president, for example. We don't have a vice presidential candidate yet, so we're all free to chip in on this forum which exists for that purpose. You too.

[DoughtyOne]

If his Republican opponents will not take down Donald Trump, Fox News will not only show them how it is done. Fox News will do the job for them. Pat Buckanan

Are you sure about that. This sounds pretty tough. Am I missing an angle that you see?

[itsahoot]

You are taking the time to advise me, your humble observer, not take the time to address the campaign of a man who might become president United States and who is currently convulsing the Republican Party and dominating the media?

Being an outsider is the key here, the message is not.

I hardly qualify to offer you advice. I am just an old fart with a failing memory that's watched these fights for too many years to get excited about the possibility of getting the country I was born into back.

[rusty schucklefurd]

Re: “I agree that there were issues that were not covered but the character of the candidates and their biographies are always relevant issues.”

You make a very valid point about the unwieldly format of the debate and therefore the need for more direction of discussion on the part of the moderators, and, as I stated previously, I agree that questions regarding the character and past record of the candidates are absolutely appropriate questions, but I disagree that they were appropriate in a debate format.

Those questions, in my opinion, should be asked in an interview or a press conference, not in a debate on the national issues, which is what I, perhaps mistakenly, thought a debate was supposed to be about.

Whether good or bad, the cat IS out of the bag in regard to Mr Trump. If he ultimately implodes, so be it. That is what the primary process and campaign season is for, to weed out the unqualified candidates (at least we hope that’s what happens).

By the way, I always appreciate your thoughtful and well-reasoned arguments, and that you don’t engage in personal attacks. We may not completely agree on this issue, but know that I am with you on the ultimate goal, to turn the country back to constitutional government.

[geologist]

...” We may not completely agree on this issue, but know that I am with you on the ultimate goal, to turn the country back to constitutional government.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wise words. Let conservatives unite. The medias have succeeded in dividing our party via casting actions in unfavorable and dishonest light. Too many believe the media, it is a difficult barrier to vault which is exactly what we need to do.

[nathanbedford]

I share your pessimism, the odds are daunting.

I continue to support the article 5 movement fully conscious of the forces arrayed against meaningful reform and of the mathematical odds of getting anything through enough state legislatures or conventions which are exceedingly high.

It is more than conceivable that the Democrats have already succeeded in jiggering the demographics in America (a recent report alleges 40 million immigrants in country) so that it is impossible for any conservative candidate to win national office. All of this kerfuffle about Donald Trump might well be misspent energy in a lost cause. But I have kids and grandkids and I will be favored with a great-grandchild in February…

… So what is there for us to do but to soldier on?

[nathanbedford]

Thank you for those kind words and yes we are in ultimate agreement.

[citizen]

Who decided to turn the first Republican presidential debate into a two-hour version of “The Kelly File”?

[Raising my hand] "I can answer that!"

[A CA Guy]

What ever doesn’t kill him right there makes him stronger and gets him even more votes and popular.

A unique individual, maybe the most in politics in the last 60 years or so.

[neocon1984]

Heck if I can remember. I’m 62. With luck, I remember what I had for dinner last night. :-)

[itsahoot]

… So what is there for us to do but to soldier on?

I highly recommend prayer.

I fear any electorate that could elect the current resident twice is unsalvageable.

[MaxMax]

I think Ventura and Trump are two peas in a pod. Perfect compliment to each other.
Ventura/Trump should be the ticket. I mean WTH, if we're going off the Conservative
plantation with Trump lets F it up all the way.

[sickoflibs]

RE:”As I said in the other reply, I'm less concerned about Trump's response at present about what he would do in 2017 and more concerned what the so-called “leadership” in the GOP majority are going to do about it right now.”

Last night impy nailed me correctly when he mentioned cultists..I thank him for it, he is always helpful with his insight.

In early 2009 we met invading Bush cult ‘Miss me yet’ threads. I met nfhale and sjb on them too. We were called a BDSer many times. Hopefully still FRiends.

Then in 2011 I couldn't help myself exposing Palin (and Trump) for their make believe POTUS runs.
Both had many cultists here, Palin more than Trump, who claimed that they were sure that she was running.
Long after she decided she wouldn't run.
I was called a PDSer many times.

Trump's new cult overshadows his 2011 one.

The problem for cultists is that time is against them.

The same thing that thrills them, the uncertainty of what will happen next, ultimately betrays them.

[sickoflibs]

Other cults I have gone after....

LDS,

Elsie and reaganaut educated me on that one.

I still appreciate you schooling me on them babes.

[NFHale]

“...exposing Palin (and Trump) for their make believe POTUS runs...”

Well, Trump probably (and correctly) figured it wasn’t the time for a run at the office back then. I believe he’s serious about it now (obviously, as he’s in and spending his own money to be in it).

As for Palin... Hell, SOL, I wanted to believe her (you know that - we’ve discussed it). Still would like to see her get serious about it. I think she’s a great American and has provided a voice for me and folks like me. A lot of folks wanted to believe in her. Same with Ted Cruz; he gets “us” - the working stiffs who get up every day, pay the bills, keep the lights on, and make the Country function.

And in a really weird way, I think Trump gets us too. He’s the exact opposite of everything that Washington has become. He’s not a career politician - not a “professional leech” - and yes, he DID “build that”. Showman? Yup. Poser? Maybe. But I think he’s in it to win now, because he sees what a cluster-f*** the “professionals” have caused. And I do believe he actually cares about the Country - the place that provided the vehicle for him to be so successful.

As far as the “PDS” you speak of - to my mind, it’s nothing more than the reaction to what folks wanted to see, versus the reality of what actually happened, and resultant disappointment.

People want to believe in something; when it gets taken away from them, emotions run high. You pointed it out; folks didn’t want to see it. Simple as that.

As far as “FRiends” go - hell yes. I just keep it all in perspective. Opinions are what they are, nothing more, nothing less. If you have to agree with someone all the time just to maintain a friendship, it’s not really a friendship, is it?

My first concern is always the Country, and what we’ll leave behind us when we’re gone. Something pretty damned special was given to us; while we’re here, we should do the best we can to make it better than when it was handed to us by our ancestors.

We owe them that... and we owe future generations as well.

Just my .02.

[stephenjohnbanker]

“In early 2009 we met invading Bush cult ‘Miss me yet’ threads. I met nfhale and sjb on them too. We were called a BDSer many times. Hopefully still FRiends. “

Yes, and we each went into explicit detail on why we didn’t : )

[stephenjohnbanker]

“As far as “FRiends” go - hell yes. I just keep it all in perspective. Opinions are what they are, nothing more, nothing less. If you have to agree with someone all the time just to maintain a friendship, it’s not really a friendship, is it?

My first concern is always the Country, and what we’ll leave behind us when we’re gone. Something pretty damned special was given to us; while we’re here, we should do the best we can to make it better than when it was handed to us by our ancestors.

We owe them that... and we owe future generations as well.”

Nailed it.