Posted on 07/20/2015 6:13:58 AM PDT by Hostage
Towards the end of the video where John McCain's betrayals are exposed By Vietnam Vets And POWs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hr37eE0nO8&feature=youtu.be
are found the remarks of former Congressman Dornan's which are accurate and highly plausible but are missing a vital part that deconstructs John McCain's character and the myth about his 'heroism'.
Here's the context with reference in italics to the Hanoi Hilton's POW Commanding Officer Admiral James Stockdale in his own words:
Admiral (then a USN Captain) Stockdale and all other POWs inside the Hanoi Hilton confirmed the only way to come home early was if Admiral Stockdale granted permission; there was no other way around it. There were very few early releasees. One was a Seaman Apprentice named Douglas Hegdahl III who had spent night and day memorizing the names of 256 aviators into a rhyme and jingle. He was ordered to be an early release because he had those names to pass on to his debriefer when he got home.
McCain was never ordered to early release although the enemy offered it to him. He refused because of the standing order given by his POW Commanding Officer James Stockdale. Many have construed this refusal as of his own volition. He did obey the order and the consequence of not obeying the order was well-described by Congressman Dornan.
From Admiral Stockdale's book p.254:
There was little concern in any American's mind about the possibility of the Vietnamese throwing anybody out to defame him; we now knew the Vietnamese well enough to be sure that any early releasee would have to buy his way out by groveling on his knees before the Communists, bad-mouthing America. I gave their new release program a name: FRP -- the "Fink Release Program," and that was the way it was to be known. I also issued an order that started on its way to the other cell blocks of Las Vegas and with subsequent movers to the camps elsewhere in the city and outside it: "No early release; we all go home together".
John McCain's betrayals Exposed By Vietnam Vets And POWs:
> “Do you realize that you just defamed every POW who was offered early release and turned it down?”
I did no such thing.
My question is simple. Since his release from Hanoi just what has this hack done outside of living off the story of his internment. He has done more damage to this country in the years since then any other person I can think of. If there had been no capture just what could this crap wad have done. Certainly no Senate seat, no rich wife and as a country we would all be better off.
Please, can people on this site please stop trying to tear down McCain?? Seriously, someone gave him an order to not accept release?? So what! You think that makes any less the will it takes to refuse release after being mentally and physically abused and tortured?? Be serious.
I am disgusted by the behavior I am seeing here.
Thank the good Lord most of us will never have to endure the things that McCain did, and to sit here in our comfy chairs attempting to tear his actions down during that time is pathetic.
I do not agree with McCain on many political issues, but this attempt to tear him down on here is just rehashing the same crap that was being posted on Democratic Underground in 2008. Its reprehensible and disgusting.
I am not offended by Trump saying he doesn’t consider McCain a hero, and I think McCain’s statement of Trump stirring up the crazies was at the very least politically tone deaf and stupid, but to sit here and try to Bash Mr McCain’s service record, particularly while in captivity is abjectly repugnant.
You might try reading what Trump actually said rather than what state-controlled media says he said.
https://sharylattkisson.com/fact-check-the-washington-post-on-donald-trump-and-john-mccain/
“He has done more damage to this country in the years since then any other person I can think of.”
If you believe this, truly believe this, you have to be one of the most uninformed people in this nation.
McCain did his duty under extremely brutal circumstances. That is commendable but it is not heroism as it was not premeditated.
If you want to know who a true hero is, look to his Commanding Officer James Stockdale.
To equate McCain’s acts with those of Stockdale’s is to render Stockdale’s Congressional Medal of Honor as a meaningless award.
Heroism is not necessarily an act of following orders. The men who landed on Normandy Beach (and I knew some in my lifetime) refused to allow themselves to be called heroes when in their own words they were following orders. They were ‘brave’ and they are to be admired and respected as their deaths were a near certainty.
Well stated. My now departed Dad was one of them, and many many years ago stated exactly that. In his words “ the heroes are those who aren’t with us anymore” they gave their lives so you and I could be free.
P.S. He was a Navy Medic who landed on Normandy so knew of what he spoke in a simple straight forward manner.
McCain committed to the service when he accepted his appointment to Annapolis.
We’re “going back” in response to the Establishment’s and media’s diatribe against Trump. All of these posts are to throw it back in their faces. They are the ones in false worship of ‘Hero McCain’.
> “McCain is a hero by our definition of the word for his time in VietNam.”
And that is EXACTLY what Trump was pointing out.
IF McCain had never been captured, there would never have been any talk of him being a ‘hero’.
Being a POW in Hanoi must have been a horrible experience.
The main reason McCain was shot down was because he is the son and grandson of Navy Admirals. Know a guy who was a USNA classmate of his. The surest way to graduate from the academy that year was to stay ahead of John McCain on the order of merit list. McCain was third from the bottom; and he was given extra consideration in flight school when student’s not named McCain would have been disqualified.
Please oh please inform me.
Oh, I absolutely agree with that.
I’ve brought that up several times over the years in different contexts. For example, when some old guy is robbed and they make note of his WWII veteran status. His status as a vet has nothing to do with his being robbed—unless he was leaving the VFW hall or something.
I know there are a lot of vets and retired military on FR. But there are also a lot of folks who would like to think they know how they would react to a similar situation as McCain’s. They are wrong. Unless they have been in that situation, it is impossible to know how you are going to act.
Now...after he is home and he starts his political career, then he is a politician. Everything from that point forward is on the table.
McCain might have been near the bottom of his class, but he is smart enough to know if he was truly a traitor in Hanoi, in front of all of those men...it political career would be a non starter.
Yes, you did.
Despite having NO evidence whatsoever to justify your claim, you stated that there is “no doubt” that McCain was “merely” following orders when he refused early release.
Since the same lack of evidence is in place regarding other POWs, why would the same “logic” you applied to John McCain not also apply to every other POW who refused early release?
Why else would you use the term “merely following orders” to apply to the lose-lose decision those men took?
I honor and respect POW’S and what they endured. I do not condone what John McCain has done as a senator.
His heroism was the same as many others: he risked his life willingly by going to Vietnam. Unlike Trump.
He flew risky missions behind enemy lines, knowing being shot down would probably result in torture.
Once shot down, he endured. If he had been the coward so many here on FR are accusing him of being, he WOULD have taken an early release. But he did not, nor did he ask for permission to do so.
His cellmate & Medal of Honor winner, George Day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfyGdG9llSE
What happened to the practice of escaping if you could ???
Why didn’t McCain leave when he could so that he could pass on to the US anything he might have learnt about the enemies movements, treatment of POWs etc and who was in there with him ???
staying in that case was not a brave thing to do, it was stupid..
if I was Denton or one of the others I would have urged him to go, even if it was just to reassure the families about the other men..
McCain didn’t help our side by staying there..
I have read Attkisson’s account of the media and it’s the sole reason for throwing this mud back in their faces.
No one likes to dress down a POW who suffered but McCain himself allows the myth to be perpetuated, He could do the honorable thing and step forward to say “I was not a hero” but he relishes in the limelight of the hero myth the media have created for him. The man has no honor inside him to do the right thing or at least in this case he will not step forward.
McCain gave something like 31 videos with the communists denouncing the US and its policies. They (the Vietnamese enemy) reportedly called him “the canary” because of how readily he gave up information. Some fellow prisoners claim he was never even tortured.
“McCain is a hero by our definition of the word for his time in VietNam. It neither excuses all of the harm he’s done since nor gives him a “pass” from us discussing the person he’s become.”
Agreed!
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