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Army seeks gun industry help on M4 carbine in tacit admission of rifle’s flaws
The Washington Times ^ | April 26, 2015 | Rowan Scarborough

Posted on 04/27/2015 1:14:39 PM PDT by DJ Taylor

The Army is asking the gun industry to build new components for its soldiers' primary weapon — the M4 carbine — a move that experts say is a tacit admission that the service has been supplying a flawed rifle that lacks the precision of commercially available guns.

At a recent Capitol Hill hearing, an Army general acknowledged that the M4's magazine has been responsible for the gun jamming during firefights.

On the federal government's FedBizOpps.gov website, the Army announced a "market survey" for gunmakers to produce a set of enhancements to essentially create a new model — the "M4A1+." It would include a modular trigger, a new type of rail fitted around a "free floating" barrel and other parts. The upgrade is supposed to improve the rifle's accuracy and reliability.

The Army last year took the significant step of beginning to convert the basic M4 into the special operations version, the M4A1, with a heavier barrel designed to better withstand the heat of rapid fire.

The Washington Times reported in 2014 on confidential prewar tests that showed the barrel was prone to overheating. The Times also quoted active-duty soldiers who said the M4 is inferior based on their experience in battle. A Green Beret said he takes the extraordinary step of rebuilding his M4A1 on the battlefield by using components from other gunmakers — technically a violation of Army regulations.

Retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert Scales, an artillery officer and decorated Vietnam combatant, is one of the M4's most vocal critics. He also believes the 5.56 mm M855A1 ammunition — an environmentally sensitive, or "green," round — is wrong for the gun.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; m4carbine
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For me, it was a sad day in October 1965 when I turned in my M-14 and was issued a Colt XM16e1.
1 posted on 04/27/2015 1:14:39 PM PDT by DJ Taylor
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To: DJ Taylor

Did the Army sell, give-away or destroy the millions of M-16A1s it had when I was in?


2 posted on 04/27/2015 1:21:14 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can help: https://donate.tedcruz.org/c/FBTX0095/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They are in Mehico and South America...


3 posted on 04/27/2015 1:22:48 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: DJ Taylor

The M4 short barrel configuration of the M-16 is fundamentally flawed due to the short barrel and the short gas system.

There s nothing really wrong with the full sized M-16 if you buy into the use of 5.56 NATO ammunition.


4 posted on 04/27/2015 1:28:15 PM PDT by rdcbn
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To: Resolute Conservative
They are in Mehico and South America...

and Syria, Libya and Iraq. Perhaps ISIS and al Qaeda should complain that we are arming them with sub standard weapons

5 posted on 04/27/2015 1:29:59 PM PDT by rdcbn
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To: DJ Taylor

We need te M1’s, M2’s, M3’s, M14’s, & 1911’S back.


6 posted on 04/27/2015 1:30:11 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: rdcbn

One of the big gun companies, H&K I think, was asked to improve the M4. The main improvement was changing form the direct impingement gas system to a piston gas system.


7 posted on 04/27/2015 1:32:57 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (True followers of Christ emulate Christ. True followers of Mohammed emulate Mohammed.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A (now-retired) co-worker who was in Army Ordnance during the Vietnam War told me years ago that the M-16’s jamming problems were primarily related to the use of too much carbon carbonate in the ball powder, which left a residue in the chamber, not the rifle itself. Also, many of the clips were of substandard quality.

What was your experience?

8 posted on 04/27/2015 1:42:33 PM PDT by riverdawg
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To: DJ Taylor

I was reading an article while waiting in my Dr.’s office a few days ago. It was about the Beretta M9 magazines failing in the Middle East. The article was in a defense dept. magazine or maybe one intended for contractors.

The fascinating thing to me is that Beretta told the Army not to use parkerized magazines as they retain sand. The Army went ahead anyway and sure enough they jammed. Also the quality was not top notch and were produced by a third party.

I wonder if the problems with the M4 could be something similar.


9 posted on 04/27/2015 1:45:50 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8:38-39, For I am persuaded.)
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To: riverdawg

Once the barrels of the M-16 were chromed most of the ‘design based’ jamming problems in Viet Nam stopped, but you still had to keep the weapon pretty clean because it doesn’t tolerate dirt the way an AK does.


10 posted on 04/27/2015 1:46:37 PM PDT by navyguy (The National Reset Button is pushed with the trigger finger.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

H&K, huh?

Funny, the German Ministry of Defense has decided that the H&K 36, the standard Bundeswehr infantry rifle, is defective (lack of accuracy) caused by sensitivity to environmental heating and the use of different plastics in the receiver.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/04/18/breaking-news-g36s-cannot-hold-accuracy-bundeswehr-report-confirms/


11 posted on 04/27/2015 1:48:58 PM PDT by Captain Rhino (Determined effort today forges tomorrow)
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To: rdcbn

“There s nothing really wrong with the full sized M-16 if you buy into the use of 5.56 NATO ammunition.”

The new IWI 77 grain ammo really helps it.


12 posted on 04/27/2015 1:49:04 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem)
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To: Captain Rhino

Might have been another company.


13 posted on 04/27/2015 1:58:58 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (True followers of Christ emulate Christ. True followers of Mohammed emulate Mohammed.)
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To: rdcbn

Except for the whole craps-where-it-eats DI system.


14 posted on 04/27/2015 2:04:56 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: riverdawg

Your source was right on point. Powder shortages lead to the change.


15 posted on 04/27/2015 2:05:07 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Captain Rhino

That’s the G36C - the short carbine version, much like the US M4 is a short carbine version of the M16. The regular G36 has been used all over the world and hasn’t had those problems.


16 posted on 04/27/2015 2:06:15 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: riverdawg
"What was your experience?"

Starting in 1966, jamming problems with the XM16E1 were reported by units throughout Vietnam. The reoccurring problem was spent cartridge casings freezing in the chamber. The bolt's extractor would pull off the rim from the case leaving it stuck in the chamber until a cleaning rod was shoved down the barrel to push the empty cartridge case out of the chamber. As a result, troops would keep an assembled cleaning rod taped to their XM16E1.

The first attempted fix for this problem was a different buffer, so every XM16E1 buffer was replaced, but the problem continued. Eventually, the source of the jamming problem was found to be the powder used in the new 5.56.

A brief history of the XM16E1 can be found at: http://looserounds.com/2014/10/21/the-xm16e1-rifle/

17 posted on 04/27/2015 2:10:29 PM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: riverdawg

Notice the tapering that address the residue buildup problem.

18 posted on 04/27/2015 2:12:11 PM PDT by MaxMax (Call the local GOP and ask how you can support CRUZ for POTUS, Make them talk!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“The main improvement was changing form the direct impingement gas system to a piston gas system.”

And increased weight noticeably. It is no more or less reliable than the original.


19 posted on 04/27/2015 2:22:53 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

A gas piston system adds only a few ounces to the rifle, 2 or 3 at the most.


20 posted on 04/27/2015 2:24:36 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (True followers of Christ emulate Christ. True followers of Mohammed emulate Mohammed.)
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