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Op-Ed: "Complicit": FDR's Refusal to Save the Jews on the MS St. Louis
INN ^ | Sunday, April 19, 2015 7:04 PM | Prof. Phyllis Chesler

Posted on 04/20/2015 8:05:33 AM PDT by Olog-hai

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To: BroJoeK

You don’t have to “buy” the distinction; it exists whether you want it to or not.

For modern-day liberals, of course, it does not have to exist with respect to the US southern border. But that is not what this subject is about, and trying to conflate the two bespeaks a malicious agenda.

The rest of the reply is conjecture and misdirection. Also bespeaks an agenda of malice. There is always peace before war breaks out (which it did in 1939), and trying to pretend once more that Allied intelligence was so incompetent as to not know about machinations towards war is just insulting to not only the intelligence of the one addressed but also oneself.


121 posted on 05/01/2015 7:03:58 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: af_vet_1981; Olog-hai
af_vet_1981: "False, the Jews were not at peace.
They were already refugees.
'Kindertransport (Children's Transport) was the informal name of a series of rescue efforts which brought thousands of refugee Jewish children to Great Britain from Nazi Germany between 1938 and 1940.'. "

The Breitman book I posted in #53 above cites statistics which now I don't have handy, will post them when I can.
But the gist of it is that no country -- none -- accepted more Jewish immigrants/refugees in the years before September 1939 (start of WWII) than the US.
Indeed, iirc, in those years the US accepted more Jewish immigrants than all other countries combined.
And that's the point everyone misses in all this.

Yes, the US had strict immigration quotas, but, then as now, they were far higher than any other country in the world, and in the years before WWII, they were filled almost entirely by Jews.
So we are talking about totals of not just a few hundred children, but many tens of thousands who arrived in America lawfully.

Of course, in hindsight, it wasn't enough, but it was far more than any other country, and more than FDR is usually given credit for.

When I get the chance next week, I'll post those numbers for you.
You may be surprised.

122 posted on 05/02/2015 2:44:03 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Olog-hai
Ology-hai: "You don’t have to “buy” the distinction; it exists whether you want it to or not."

But only in your obviously fertile imagination, unless you can cite facts & statistics from circa 1939 which show that the US was admitting not just ordinary quota-based immigrants, but also special-consideration "refugees" from persecution in, say, Germany or Austria.
To my knowledge, it never happened.

But what did happen was tens of thousands of lawful Jewish immigrants admitted each year before WWII, and during WWII additional Jews provided for as, yes, refugees.
Of course, today we judge that to have been inadequate, but it was considerably more than other countries, and more than FDR is usually given credit for.

As I posted above, when time permits next week, I'll look up & post those statistics for you.

123 posted on 05/02/2015 2:53:26 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Olog-hai
Ology-hai: "The rest of the reply is conjecture and misdirection.
Also bespeaks an agenda of malice.
There is always peace before war breaks out (which it did in 1939), and trying to pretend once more that Allied intelligence was so incompetent as to not know about machinations towards war is just insulting to not only the intelligence of the one addressed but also oneself."

FRiend, I don't "get" where all of your malice on this subject is coming from.
You seem determined to condemn FDR for not accepting enough Jewish immigrant/refugees, and to resist my suggestion that he actually did more than usually given credit for, more than any other country, and everything that he lawfully could have done.

Plus, you seem determined to insist that FDR coulda-shoulda foreseen in, say, 1938, the Holocaust of 1941 - 1945.
I have merely pointed out that Nazis themselves did not know before 1941 exactly what they were going to do about their "Jewish question".
They had in mind shipping their Jews to Madagascar.

So, what does that have to do with either "malice" or "insulting"?

124 posted on 05/02/2015 3:08:06 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
Mark, Catholic chapter twelve, protestant verses thirty eight to forty two,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

Here are the statistics you seek. My point is, that after Kristallnacht, Great Britain made an exception to their quota to admit Jewish children. The United States did not, instead choosing to stick to the quotas. It is better to show mercy than to enforce a quota and fail to feed, clothe, and shelter the persecuted brethren of the Messiah.

Several factors determined the ebb and flow of emigration of Jews from Germany. These included the degree of pressure placed on the Jewish community in Germany and the willingness of other countries to admit Jewish immigrants. However, in the face of increasing legal repression and physical violence, many Jews fled Germany. Until October 1941, German policy officially encouraged Jewish emigration. Gradually, however, the Nazis sought to deprive Jews fleeing Germany of their property by levying an increasingly heavy emigration tax and by restricting the amount of money that could be transferred abroad from German banks.

In January 1933 there were some 523,000 Jews in Germany, representing less than 1 percent of the country's total population. The Jewish population was predominantly urban and approximately one-third of German Jews lived in Berlin. The initial response to the Nazi takeover was a substantial wave of emigration (37,000–38,000), much of it to neighboring European countries (France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, and Switzerland). Most of these refugees were later caught by the Nazis after their conquest of western Europe in May 1940. Jews who were politically active were especially likely to emigrate. Other measures that spurred decisions to emigrate in the early years of Nazi rule were the dismissal of Jews from the civil service and the Nazi-sponsored boycott of Jewish-owned stores.

During the next two years there was a decline in the number of emigrants. This trend may partly have been due to the stabilization of the domestic political situation, but was also caused by the strict enforcement of American immigration restrictions as well as the increasing reluctance of European and British Commonwealth countries to accept additional Jewish refugees.

Despite the passage of the Nuremberg Laws in September 1935 and subsequent related ordinances that deprived German Jews of civil rights, Jewish emigration remained more or less constant.

The events of 1938 caused a dramatic increase in Jewish emigration. The German annexation of Austria in March, the increase in personal assaults on Jews during the spring and summer, the nationwide Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogrom in November, and the subsequent seizure of Jewish-owned property all caused a flood of visa applications. Although finding a destination proved difficult, about 36,000 Jews left Germany and Austria in 1938 and 77,000 in 1939.

The sudden flood of emigrants created a major refugee crisis. President Franklin D. Roosevelt convened a conference in Evian, France, in July 1938. Despite the participation of delegates from 32 countries, including the United States, Great Britain, France, Canada, and Australia, only the Dominican Republic agreed to accept additional refugees. The plight of German-Jewish refugees, persecuted at home and unwanted abroad, is also illustrated by the voyage of the "St. Louis."

During 1938–1939, in an program known as the Kindertransport, the United Kingdom admitted 10,000 unaccompanied Jewish children on an emergency basis. 1939 also marked the first time the United States filled its combined German-Austrian quota (which now included annexed Czechoslovakia). However, this limit did not come close to meeting the demand; by the end of June 1939, 309,000 German, Austrian, and Czech Jews had applied for the 27,000 places available under the quota.

By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.

At the end of 1939, about 202,000 Jews remained in Germany and 57,000 in annexed Austria, many of them elderly. By October 1941, when Jewish emigration was officially forbidden, the number of Jews in Germany had declined to 163,000. The vast majority of those Jews still in Germany were murdered in Nazi camps and ghettos during the Holocaust.


Although thousands of Jews had been admitted into the United States under the combined German-Austrian quota from 1938–1941, the US did not pursue an organized and specific rescue policy for Jewish victims of Nazi Germany until early 1944.

While some American activists sincerely intended to assist refugees, serious obstacles to any relaxation of US immigration quotas included public opposition to immigration during a time of economic depression, xenophobia, and antisemitic feelings in both the general public and among some key government officials. Once the United States entered World War II, the State Department practiced stricter immigration policies out of fear that refugees could be blackmailed into working as agents for Germany.

It was not until January 1944 that President Franklin D. Roosevelt, under pressure from officials in his own government and an American Jewish community then fully aware of the extent of mass murder, took action to rescue European Jews. Following discussions with Treasury Department officials, he established the War Refugee Board (WRB) to facilitate the rescue of imperiled refugees. With the assistance of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and the World Jewish Congress, as well as resistance organizations in German-occupied Europe, the WRB helped to rescue many thousands of Jews in Hungary, Romania, and elsewhere in Europe.

In April 1944, Roosevelt also directed that Fort Ontario, New York, become a free port for refugees. However, only a few thousand refugees were allowed there and they were from liberated areas, not from Nazi-occupied areas. They were in no imminent danger of deportation to killing centers in German-occupied Poland.

125 posted on 05/02/2015 6:03:22 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: BroJoeK
At the time the MSS St. Louis was turned away, there was resistance to accepting Jews, and the quota was not filled, even when more about ten times the quota applied.

America's immigration laws placed quotas on the number of people allowed to enter the United States from other countries. In 1939, the quota allowed for 27,370 German citizens to immigrate to the United States. In 1938, more than 300,000 Germans-mostly Jewish refugees-had applied for U.S. visas (entry permits). A little over 20,000 applications were approved. Beyond the strict national quotas, the United States openly denied visas to any immigrant "likely to become a public charge." This ruling proved to be a serious problem for many Jewish refugees. Most had lost everything when the Nazis took power, and they might need government assistance after they immigrated to the United States.

Shortly after she was appointed to the cabinet, Frances Perkins, President Roosevelt's secretary of labor, proposed an executive order on refugees and immigration. Perkins suggested that the State Department should give priority to immigrants seeking refuge from racial or religious persecution. The State Department objected to this order because it would antagonize relations with Germany and alienate jobless American citizens. FDR never issued the order, and State Department officials in Europe continued to reject many visa applications from Jewish refugees.

In September 1935, Nazi Germany passed laws that deprived German Jews of their citizenship. Without citizenship, Jews were legally defenseless. Many lost their jobs and property. Hitler also targeted with violence and persecution countless thousands of gypsies, Catholics, homosexuals, and even the physically and mentally impaired. With so many Germans fleeing their homeland, the State Department temporarily eased immigration quotas.

In 1936, the State Department approved visas for about 7,000 German refugees. By 1938, that number had increased to more than 20,000. But an opinion poll revealed that 82 percent of Americans still opposed admitting large numbers of Jewish refugees into the United States. Despite pleas by American human-rights organizations, the U.S. State Department refused to increase the German quota any further.

126 posted on 05/02/2015 6:11:05 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

we must consider the jew, Mr Levy, whose Baltimore shoe store was trashed and a million $$ of inventory was lost.

He was interviewed and was shaking in his boots. He justified all the actions of the looting and pillaging mob

He was a jew...... obviously. Like the jews in Berlin experiencing the pre Holocaust destruction of their businesses, Levy obviously feared the black politicians running Baltimore more than his losses.

To a jewish businessman, Baltimore city in 2015 is no different than the Kristallnacht in Berlin in 1938


127 posted on 05/02/2015 6:13:08 AM PDT by bert ((K.E.; N.P.; GOPc.;+12, 73, ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: Olog-hai
Here is a link to the series of articles I posted back in 2009 on the voyage of the St. Louis. My style was more primitive back in those days. I put all the St. Louis articles on one thread so articles and comments are interspersed.

The Voyage of the St. Louis, N.Y. Times, June 1939

128 posted on 05/02/2015 6:17:37 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: BroJoeK
“Immigrant refugees” again. Thanks for re-confirming.
129 posted on 05/02/2015 6:30:16 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: bert
He was a jew...... obviously. Like the jews in Berlin experiencing the pre Holocaust destruction of their businesses, Levy obviously feared the black politicians running Baltimore more than his losses.

Levy says he is furious that the police didn’t respond to any of the brothers’ continuous telephone calls pleading for help Monday night and into Tuesday morning as the looting was taking place. He and his brothers watched the scene unfold in real time on their cellular phones from feeds from video monitors in the store.

“It’s 100 percent the mayor’s fault,” Levy said of Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, accusing her of minimizing concern for property damage as it was occurring.

130 posted on 05/02/2015 9:25:46 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

What I saw was that he was solicitous of the looters and said not a single word against the mayor or police


131 posted on 05/02/2015 10:08:02 AM PDT by bert ((K.E.; N.P.; GOPc.;+12, 73, ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: af_vet_1981; Olog-hai
af_vet_1981 quoting Mark: "For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living."

You seem to suggest that Britain deserves credit for the "Widow's mite" -- accepting Jewish children on an emergency basis after Krystalnacht, while the US should be condemned as the rich who cast in much, but could afford much more, right?

Of course I love the Brits, since we and they think much alike, or at least did for many years.
But we might also remember they severely restricted immigration of Jews to British controlled Palestine, and that ironically, for years during the 1930s, it was Germany pushing to allow more Jewish immigration to Palestine, and Britain refusing to permit it.
The Brits, then as now, were super-concerned not to unduly upset their Muslim-Arab subjects by overrunning Palestine with new Jewish immigrants.

We should also note that your statistics confirm my assertion that the US admitted more Jewish refugees than any other country, indeed more than twice the number for Britain, and very likely more than all other European countries combined.
Further, this was at a time (thanks to FDR's New Deal) of the Great Depression, when it was universally believed in the US that increased immigration damaged the US economy.

Third, we should note that by the time Germany officially banned Jewish immigration, 70% of German Jews had managed to escape, unfortunately most to countries soon overrun by Nazi armies.

Finally, there are more statistics which make the point stronger, and I will post them when time permits...

132 posted on 05/03/2015 4:01:07 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: af_vet_1981; Olog-hai
af_vet_1981 quoting: "In 1936, the State Department approved visas for about 7,000 German refugees.
By 1938, that number had increased to more than 20,000.
But an opinion poll revealed that 82 percent of Americans still opposed admitting large numbers of Jewish refugees into the United States."

That 82% is an important point to remember, since popular as FDR was, he could not afford to outrage such universal agreement amongst voters.

But more specifically here is the US State Department, which not only opposed increasing immigration quotas, but also lied to President Roosevelt, grossly exaggerating how many Jews were permitted to enter the US.
Result was: FDR believed he had helped far more Jews than in fact he did.

Finally remember that in years before Hitler's rise to power, immigrants from Europe represented all ethnic groups, nationalities & classes.
After Nazis took over Germany, nearly all European immigrants were Jews escaping persecution.

Point is: FDR did what he could within the limits of US law.

133 posted on 05/03/2015 4:16:07 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Olog-hai
Ology-hai: ". 'Immigrant refugees' again. Thanks for re-confirming."

I've seen no evidence -- none -- of a US legal distinction between "immigrants" and "refugees" in 1939.
By US law in 1939, they are the same things.
But, am still hoping you might produce evidence showing I'm wrong here.

134 posted on 05/03/2015 4:34:22 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
That 82% is an important point to remember, since popular as FDR was, he could not afford to outrage such universal agreement amongst voters.

So one argument is FDR had to be antisemitic because as much as 82% of the population was antisemitic, and that rather than lead, he was led.

But more specifically here is the US State Department, which not only opposed increasing immigration quotas, but also lied to President Roosevelt, grossly exaggerating how many Jews were permitted to enter the US. Result was: FDR believed he had helped far more Jews than in fact he did.

The next argument is that the State Department that worked for FDR was antisemitic so FDR was not responsible for overseeing their work, including whether or not they were lying to him.

Finally remember that in years before Hitler's rise to power, immigrants from Europe represented all ethnic groups, nationalities & classes. After Nazis took over Germany, nearly all European immigrants were Jews escaping persecution.

The next argument is ostensibly, that Americans disliked, or hated, foreigners in general, and not just Jews. However, there were 15 million immigrants to the US in the interval of 1900 to 1915, when the total population was comprised of some 78 to 111 million souls, so that first generation immigrants comprised almost 14 percent of the total population.

Point is: FDR did what he could within the limits of US law.

False; FDR reflected his own soul when he turned back the MSS St. Louis to Europe.

135 posted on 05/03/2015 5:03:07 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

The Black Civil Rights movement was so jews could join country clubs


136 posted on 05/03/2015 5:06:04 AM PDT by bert ((K.E.; N.P.; GOPc.;+12, 73, ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: bert
The Black Civil Rights movement was so jews could join country clubs sounds like an conspiracy theory to me. Would you prefer Blacks not have Civil Rights and Jews be proscribed from joining country clubs ?
137 posted on 05/03/2015 7:31:28 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: BroJoeK

Freezing laws in time to justify them is a liberal trait. So it’s okay to enforce what is perceived as the laws of the time, just because of the era? like Jim Crow et cetera?

Thanks for re-reconfirming.


138 posted on 05/03/2015 8:19:09 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: BroJoeK
Citing “opinion polls” now? which in turn are cited by a foundation of Bill and Melinda Gates?

Putting things back into context, BTW:
In September 1935, Nazi Germany passed laws that deprived German Jews of their citizenship. Without citizenship, Jews were legally defenseless. Many lost their jobs and property. Hitler also targeted with violence and persecution countless thousands of gypsies, Catholics, homosexuals, and even the physically and mentally impaired. With so many Germans fleeing their homeland, the State Department temporarily eased immigration quotas. In 1936, the State Department approved visas for about 7,000 German refugees. By 1938, that number had increased to more than 20,000. But an opinion poll revealed that 82 percent of Americans still opposed admitting large numbers of Jewish refugees into the United States. Despite pleas by American human rights organizations, the U.S. State Department refused to increase the German quota any further.
Very Wilsonian, if true, and no more excusable by any alleged “opinion poll” versus reality that intelligence agencies undoubtedly informed him of. It was not a big hindrance to FDR in 1940 that Wendell Wilkie was a liberal RINO, resulting in his landslide victory.

Is it really on the record that the State Department actually lied to FDR? And even if true, could the truth be hid so effectively from the man?

And who said “Germany” when I said “Reich”? Adolf was already in Austria and Czechoslovakia by March 1939, two months before the St. Louis set out on its voyage, with the Pact of Steel concluded during the later part of May.
139 posted on 05/03/2015 8:40:28 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: BroJoeK
You seem to suggest that Britain deserves credit for the "Widow's mite" -- accepting Jewish children on an emergency basis after Krystalnacht, while the US should be condemned as the rich who cast in much, but could afford much more, right?

No. Britain, like the US, deserves credit where credit is due, and blame where blame is due, according to their abilities and resources. In this particular case, the unfortunate souls of the MSS St. Louis, the leadership of Canada, Cuba, and the United States refused safe haven to these Jewish refugees. Belgium, France, and the Netherlands eventually found room for them in a manger until Herod sent his soldiers to kill them, so to speak.

Of course I love the Brits, since we and they think much alike, or at least did for many years. I love democracy. I love the Republic.

But we might also remember they severely restricted immigration of Jews to British controlled Palestine, and that ironically, for years during the 1930s, it was Germany pushing to allow more Jewish immigration to Palestine, and Britain refusing to permit it. The Brits, then as now, were super-concerned not to unduly upset their Muslim-Arab subjects by overrunning Palestine with new Jewish immigrants.

    Changing the subject from the Jewish refugees of the MSS St Louis to the British Mandate, I note:
  1. Troops of the British Empire liberated Jerusalem from the Ottoman Empire.
  2. The Balfour Declaration was initially opposed by the US leadership, but someone got to President Wilson and he supported the British declaration of support for a Jewish homeland in the historic land of Israel.
  3. in the decade of 1929-39 under the British Mandate, some 250,000 Jewish souls immigrated to the land of Israel that the British did not own, but rather administered with a majority population already in place opposed to Jewish immigration. The Jewish portion of the population rose from about 14/17% to 30/33%, depending whose statistics one credits. The opposition sounds like the US opposition in the 30s, and the US, arguably a safer refuge for Jews, took in fewer both in raw numbers and by percentage.

We should also note that your statistics confirm my assertion that the US admitted more Jewish refugees than any other country, indeed more than twice the number for Britain, and very likely more than all other European countries combined.

That would be true only if limited to German Jews, but false when Jews from other nations are included. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Luke, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verse forty eight,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James, arguably British

Further, this was at a time (thanks to FDR's New Deal) of the Great Depression, when it was universally believed in the US that increased immigration damaged the US economy.

Third, we should note that by the time Germany officially banned Jewish immigration, 70% of German Jews had managed to escape, unfortunately most to countries soon overrun by Nazi armies.

Finally, there are more statistics which make the point stronger, and I will post them when time permits...

Thanks to the British and Commonwealth armed forces, and later those of the a United States, Jews that escaped most of continental Europe escaped death in the Holocaust. More could have been done, but something was done, except in the case of the MSS St. Louis, where hundreds of Jewish souls off the coast of Florida were denied sanctuary in the United States, as they were in Cuba, and would be in Canada.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
James, Catholic chapter four, Protestant verse seventeen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James, arguably British

140 posted on 05/03/2015 8:50:21 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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