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ALLIES WIDEN BIG OFFENSIVE IN THE WEST WITH CANADIAN-BRITISH DRIVE NEAR CLEVE (2/9/45)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 2/9/45 | Clifton Daniel, Richard J.H. Johnston, Lindesay Parrott, Hanson W. Baldwin

Posted on 02/09/2015 4:17:51 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: history; milhist; realtime; worldwarii
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To: EternalVigilance

You think the Tories should have thrown themselves to the left of Labour and run on the promises of Socialism?


21 posted on 02/09/2015 12:54:19 PM PST by Tax-chick ("Where's Dark Betrayal when you really need it?!?" ~James)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; colorado tanker; henkster; EternalVigilance
They knew we were coming and had a plan. We knew they were waiting and tried to soften them up. With very little success as it turned out.

True. One has to wonder, would it have been just as difficult if we'd just skipped the pre-invasion bombardment?

22 posted on 02/09/2015 12:55:39 PM PST by Tax-chick ("Where's Dark Betrayal when you really need it?!?" ~James)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; henkster; Tax-chick
One has to wonder, would it have been just as difficult if we'd just skipped the pre-invasion bombardment?

I think so, but it still wouldn't have given us the element of surprise. The Nimitz Graybook has been very illuminating about the pre-invasion airstrikes on Iwo to neutralize its airfield. Plus, there have been airstrikes against most of those islands' installations for months. Taking one of those islands is the next logical step toward the home islands.

I don't think the technology of the day had the means to "soften up" Iwo because the bunker network was too deep and too extensive to penetrate and destroy. It is a sad thing to contemplate as we know the sacrifice that is about to be made.

23 posted on 02/09/2015 1:06:08 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Tax-chick

Well, we had to pretty much kill ‘em all one way or another.

Almost all of the 22,000 Japanese on the island were eventually killed.

But our casualties were more than 26,000, with more 6800 killed.

One third of all Marines killed in WW II died on Iwo.

At least that’s what I read here:

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,NI_Iwo_Jima2,00.html


24 posted on 02/09/2015 1:10:27 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: colorado tanker; EternalVigilance
I don't think the technology of the day had the means to "soften up" Iwo because the bunker network was too deep and too extensive to penetrate and destroy.

That's what I was considering. At least, unlike with the D-Day bombardments, there was no possibility of artillery's hitting "friendlies."

25 posted on 02/09/2015 1:12:46 PM PST by Tax-chick ("Where's Dark Betrayal when you really need it?!?" ~James)
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To: Tax-chick; Homer_J_Simpson; EternalVigilance; colorado tanker

There were a couple of reasons we were “softening up” Iwo:

1. The Japanese had used Iwo as a forward airbase to launch strikes on our bomber bases in the Marianas. We wanted that threat neutralized. That has been the primary focus of the B-24 raids.

2. We don’t want the Japanese using their air bases to send fighters up against B-29s headed for the Home Islands. That’s also part of the focus of the B-29 raids.

3. However, the shore bombardment raids are telltale signs we intend to seize those islands. I’m sure the Japanese know the range of the P51 Mustang, thanks to their German allies, and that American strategic air doctrine prefers the big bombers be escorted by fighters.

They knew we were coming; there was no chance of surprise.

But while the shore bombardment was considered ineffective, was it really? During the pre-invasion bombardment on February 17, USS Pensacola received six hits from shore batteries. At the very least, those batteries had to be suppressed. And even if the bombardment didn’t kill all the Japanese on the island and destroy all their weapons, it didn’t hurt to try.


26 posted on 02/09/2015 1:29:58 PM PST by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: henkster

Yeah. I think you’re right.


27 posted on 02/09/2015 1:34:32 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: henkster

They HAD to try. Seriously.


28 posted on 02/09/2015 1:39:04 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: henkster
And even if the bombardment didn’t kill all the Japanese on the island and destroy all their weapons, it didn’t hurt to try.

Yes, we certainly owed it to the Marines going ashore to do everything we could to help them do the job.

29 posted on 02/09/2015 1:41:43 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Tax-chick; Homer_J_Simpson; henkster; colorado tanker; EternalVigilance
One has to wonder, would it have been just as difficult if we'd just skipped the pre-invasion bombardment?

When looking across the Pacific, a case can probably be made that the pre-invasion bombardments did little more than cause the marines to calmly board their landing craft thinking nothing could have survived the bombardment they just witnessed.

30 posted on 02/09/2015 7:55:25 PM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

Iwo Jima was the first island that was part of Japan proper that we invaded. I think it was even considered part of the Tokyo prefecture, or whatever it is they call their counties.

The carnage we experienced there goes a long way to explaining why so many Americans dreaded the coming invasion of Japan. And why so many were so relieved when we nuked ‘em.


31 posted on 02/09/2015 8:15:07 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Squawk 8888

Great to see the REAL flag of Canada, that my grandfather fought under at Vimy Ridge.


32 posted on 02/10/2015 4:15:51 AM PST by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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