Posted on 01/17/2015 2:31:16 PM PST by BigReb555
During Robert E. Lee's 100th birthday in 1907, Charles Francis Adams, Jr., a former Union Commander and grandson of US President John Quincy Adams, spoke in tribute to Robert E. Lee at Washington and Lee College's Lee Chapel in Lexington, Virginia. His speech was printed in both Northern and Southern newspapers and is said to had lifted Lee to a renewed respect among the American people.
(Excerpt) Read more at huntingtonnews.net ...
If your secession is driven by hatred of protective tariffs then why does it matter which government is imposing them?
But you obviously believe everything in them to be accurate or else I assume you wouldn't be posting them. Did it not occur to you to question a single claim that they made? The South had less than a quarter of the free population of the U.S. yet this author claims that they paid something like three quarters of the tariff. Aren't you curious as to what the South was importing in such vast quantities? The claim was made that the North was taking all that tariff money that they raped from the South and was spending it on canals and railroads. Yet I cannot find a single canal that the federal government funded or a single railroad. Don't you find that curious? Or do you accept everything at face value?
Given the overall poor scholarship of the article I'm more than willing to accept what he said at face value and was actually identifying Semmes as the captain of the Alabama in 1861.
As long as your government is not imposing them on you, it matters. Money, power, and sovereignty. That really is what it was all about, isn’t it?
I don't necessarily believe them, so you're wrong to make that assumption. Obviously any claim is subject to question, not matter who makes it.
For the record, the CSS Sumter steamed into Trinidad harbour on July 30, 1861. Also present in Trinidad harbour was the British vessel HMS Cadmus, Henry Hillyar, commanding.
This information was trivially easy to find. Now, the Leftists like to hide and befog information that undermines their arguments. I should hope that you're not cut from that same bolt of cloth, DoodleDawg.
From the article: "Even worse, an American from the island reported to Seward that 'the officers of the British war vessel Cadmus appeared to be on amicable terms with those of the Sumter.'
While not confirming the conversation between Hillyar & Semmes, it makes it at least quite plausible.
DoodleDawg is correct about Semmes commanding the Sumter and not the Alabama. King appeared to imply it was the Sumter, even though he accurately recounts the Semmes/Hillyar conversation. It appears the conversation did in fact occur, and this is the original source...
http://www.archive.org/stream/serviceafloatwar00semmrich/serviceafloatwar00semmrich_djvu.txt
Page 186 Memoirs of Service Afloat
Monday, August 5th. Weather clear, and fine. Flocks of
parrots are flying overhead, and all nature is rejoicing in the
sunshine, after the long, drenching rains. Far as the eye can
reach, there is but one sea of verdure, giving evidence, at once,
of the fruitfulness of the soil, and the ardor of the sun. At
eleven A. M., Captain Hillyar, of the Cadmus, came on board,
to visit me, and we had a long and pleasant conversation on
American affairs. He considerately brought me a New York
newspaper, of as late a date, as the 12th of July. “ I must
confess,” said he, as he handed me this paper, “that your
American war puzzles me it cannot possibly last long.”
“ You are probably mistaken, as to its duration,” I replied ; “ I
fear it will be long and bloody. As to its being a puzzle, it
should puzzle every honest man. If our late co-partners had
practised toAvard us the most common rules of honesty, we
should not have quarrelled with them ; but we are only defend
ing ourselves against robbers, with knives at our throats.”
“You surprise me,” rejoined the Captain; “how is that?”
“Simply, that the machinery of the Federal Government,
under which we have lived, and which was designed for the
common benefit, has been made the means of despoiling the
South, to enrich the North ; “ and I explained to him the
workings of the iniquitous tariffs, under the operation of
which the South had, in effect, been reduced to a dependent
colonial condition, almost as abject, as that of the Roman
provinces, under their proconsuls; the only difference being,
that smooth-faced hypocrisy had been added to robbery, inas
much as we had been plundered under the forms of law.
“All this is new to me, I assure you,” replied the Captain;
“ I thought that your war had arisen out of the slavery ques-
DURING THE WAR BETWEEN THE STATES. 187
tion.” “That is a common mistake of foreigners. The enemy
has taken pains to impress foreign nations with this false view
of the case. With the exception of a few honest zealots, the
canting, hypocritical Yankee cares as little for our slaves, as
he does for our draught animals. The war which he has been
making upon slavery, for the last forty years, is only an inter
lude, or by-play, to help on the main action of the drama,
which is Empire ; and it is a curious coincidence, that it was
commenced about the time the North began to rob the South,
by means of its tariffs. When a burglar designs to enter a
dwelling, for the purpose of robbery, he provides himself with
the necessary implements. The slavery question was one of
the implements employed, to help on the robbery of the South.
It strengthened the Northern party, and enabled them to get
their tariffs through Congress ; and when, at length, the South,
driven to the wall, turned, as even the crushed worm will turn,
it was cunningly perceived by the Northern men, that No
Slavery would be a popular war-cry, and hence they used it.
It is true, we are defending our slave property, but we are
defending it no more than any other species of our property
it is all endangered, under a general system of robbery. We
are, in fact, fighting for independence. Our forefathers made
a great mistake, when they warmed the Puritan serpent in
their bosom ; and we, their descendants, are endeavoring to
remedy it.”
The Captain now rose to depart. I accompanied him on
deck, and when he had shoved off) I ordered the ship to be
gotten under way the fires having been started some time
before, the steam was already up. The Sumter, as she moved
out of the harbor of the Port of Spain, looked more like a
comfortable passenger steamer, bound on a voyage, than a ship
of war, her stern nettings, and stern and quarter boats being
filled with oranges, and bananas, and all the other luscious
fruits that are produced so abundantly in this rich tropical
island. Other luxuries were added, for Jack had brought, on
board, one or two more sad-looking old monkeys, and a score
more of squalling parrots.
When the southerners overran federal depots it was an orgy of stealing. There was nothing organized or legal about the way they conducted themselves.
Southerners paid no tariffs. They wanted the tariff of 1857 (which lowered tariffs), they got the tariff of 1857, and the tariff of 1857 was still in effect when they seceded.
Say what?
Again, the tariff of 1857 was a southern-supported tariff, and it passed Congress, and was still in effect when the south seceded. How could that be the cause when it was supported by those that seceded?
Tariffs are paid by the importer or by their shipping companies, not the importee. That's why foreign countries oppose them when they're enacted, it's a tax on them.
kiryandil replied: Say what?
Partisan Gunslinger wrote: Tariffs are paid by the importer or by their shipping companies, not the importee. That's why foreign countries oppose them when they're enacted, it's a tax on them.
kiryandil (moi) wrote earlier to another poster on this thread: Now, the Leftists like to hide and befog information that undermines their arguments. I should hope that you're not cut from that same bolt of cloth...
I call it "lying by omission" or "lying by obfuscation". We saw it during the impeachment wars with Hillary's flying monkey, "journalist" Sid "The Squid" Blumenthal, he of the "Nuts & Sluts" strategy.
Are you REALLY going to go there, Partisan Gunslinger?
Was the impending arrival of the odious Morrill Tariff a more likely cause? Could not secession be seen as a preemptive defense?
The cost of tariffs are passed along to the consumer. Who was more dependent on imported goods and who was paying more per capita for them, northerners or southerners?
Go where? Do you really believe tariffs were paid by southerners? Look up the history of tariffs in the United States and you find that the south got their way in the decades leading up to secession. The tariffs were much lower in 1860 than they were in the 1820s. You'll also find that those that were most angry about the tariff situation were the northern manufacturers because they had been lowered and lowered for decades.
The only reason the Morrill Tariff passed was because of secession. Southerners had the votes to defeat it.
True.
Who was more dependent on imported goods and who was paying more per capita for them, northerners or southerners?
Northerners.
You have no interest in explaining why the South was concerned with tariffs.
Your only interest appears to be making the Southerners look like retarded, petulant children with an IQ of about 40, who threw a bloody fit over something they clearly didn't understand.
You're not contributing to the discussion with such obfuscations.
The south had the votes to stop any tariff they didn't like. They were in charge of tariffs since the 1830s.
Your only interest appears to be making the Southerners look like retarded, petulant children with an IQ of about 40, who threw a bloody fit over something they clearly didn't understand.
No, the south suffered from the same problem we do today. Elites taking them to war over their issues, not the issues of the people. It's people like Soros, Hollywood, the media, etc that cause all of our big problems, making us hate each other. The same thing was in place in the south, evil plantation owners making the poor fight their war to keep their income flow coming without having to work for it.
You're not contributing to the discussion with such obfuscations.
Then why post to me?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.