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... world's first hydrogen reactor for reduction of unlimited hydrogen ...
Kochari ^ | July 22, so14 | Solar Hydrogen Trends

Posted on 08/25/2014 10:16:16 PM PDT by AZLiberty

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To: Slings and Arrows

If they were just talking about electrolysis, then the Second Law would preclude their result. But they’re claiming some sort of nuclear process, where oxygen breaks down into hydrogen, producing energy.

I don’t know if it’s true, but it’s fun to think about. Time will tell.


41 posted on 08/26/2014 12:19:45 AM PDT by AZLiberty (No tag today.)
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To: MCF

No, they claim they’re separating oxygen atoms into hydrogen atoms — a very startling claim.


42 posted on 08/26/2014 12:20:52 AM PDT by AZLiberty (No tag today.)
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To: AZLiberty

If the inventors start dying of radiation poisoning I’ll take them much more seriously. ;^)


43 posted on 08/26/2014 12:21:37 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("Your Daddy Was Drunk and Your Mama Was Lonely" - http://youtu.be/4HYy62qiOwA)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

The relevant physics question is whether eight hydrogen atoms have less energy than one oxygen atom. If so, then converting one oxygen atom into eight hydrogen atoms will release energy — if it can be done. SHT (bad name for a company) claims it can.


44 posted on 08/26/2014 12:23:17 AM PDT by AZLiberty (No tag today.)
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To: F15Eagle

It’s not a joke. It may be a lie — I don’t have enough evidence to know — but the claim is exactly as you said: converting oxygen into hydrogen, not liberating hydrogen from water molecules.


45 posted on 08/26/2014 12:26:43 AM PDT by AZLiberty (No tag today.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

And there’s Alchemy too. Transmutation of Oxygen into a Hydrogen.


46 posted on 08/26/2014 12:27:38 AM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: Slings and Arrows
If these people have a way to use solar energy to economically power hydrogen separation, they'd probably be better of just selling the solar power. Sorry, but this whole thing reeks of scam.

First, they don't have a way to use solar power to do hydrolysis, and don't claim to. They claim to be "transmuting oxygen into hydrogen."

Second, if we stipulate to a hypothetical [just for the sake of discussion] the process could actually be useful because, while you do lose energy in the form of heat in the process, that doesn't matter; the energy you've used to create the hydrogen is solar, so it's "free." The hydrogen freed by the process would be useful as a storage medium that Greenies would like, because it has "no carbon," unlike gasoline, which is essentially a hydrogen storage medium [also produced by solar energy] which releases carbon by-products on combustion.

Third. Despite what Greenies like, any process involving hydrogen as an energy storage medium is stupid (it is not a primary energy source on Earth, since all the free hydrogen on this planet bonded with other elements long ago or escaped into space.)

Why is it stupid? Because it has only about 1/4 of the energy density of gasoline when compressed and liquefied. A hydrogen "gas tank" would take you 1/4 of the distance without refueling. Worse, about half of the energy required to deliver hydrogen in usable form is burned up in the process of compressing the gas.

So, the Second Law is not the issue, because the hydrogen is produced via solar energy, and the energy available is "all net." Solar energy has to be stored somehow, and hydrogen "sounds good" as an energy storage material. But it isn't.

47 posted on 08/26/2014 12:32:35 AM PDT by FredZarguna (His first name is 'Unarmed,' and his given middle name is 'Teenager.')
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To: FredZarguna

Summary: Even if it’s not a scam, it won’t work.


48 posted on 08/26/2014 12:44:41 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("Your Daddy Was Drunk and Your Mama Was Lonely" - http://youtu.be/4HYy62qiOwA)
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To: Kozak
And there’s Alchemy too. Transmutation of Oxygen into a Hydrogen.

Ah, why didn't you say so? Here, take my money!

49 posted on 08/26/2014 12:47:54 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("Your Daddy Was Drunk and Your Mama Was Lonely" - http://youtu.be/4HYy62qiOwA)
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To: AZLiberty
It is both a joke and a lie.

A joke because as a lie it's uproariously funny.

Fission of light elements doesn't produce energy, it requires energy. The protons in bound oxygen have a binding energy of 8 MeV per nucleon. Hydrogen has 0. That means you would need to supply 16 * 8MeV or 128MeV to "split" Oxygen. Producing, in addition to 8 new hydrogens per fission, plus 8 very high-energy (and very dangerous) neutrons.

Even if all the hydrogen produced were deuterium (an isotope of hydrogen with one neutron) you still can't make it work. For deuterons, the binding energy per nucleon is ~1.1 MeV. So in that case you would need to supply an energy of 8 * (8MeV - 1.1MeV) ~ 55 MeV for each fission.

How much energy is that in practical units? About 1.5 Gigawatt-hours to convert 18 grams of water to 18 grams of hydrogen. Not really feasible.

50 posted on 08/26/2014 12:54:37 AM PDT by FredZarguna (His first name is 'Unarmed,' and his given middle name is 'Teenager.')
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To: Slings and Arrows
Summary: Refined petroleum is the best high energy density medium we have for storing hydrogen. The scammers need to find a way to convert water into gasoline, not elemental hydrogen.

Grandpa Munster did it. I saw it on TV! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_pill

51 posted on 08/26/2014 12:58:56 AM PDT by FredZarguna (His first name is 'Unarmed,' and his given middle name is 'Teenager.')
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To: AZLiberty

One US barrel is about 160 liters, which equals 160 kgs.

“...can convert 1 barrel of water into 200 kg of hydrogen”

Not only did they create hydrogen out of oxygen, they created about 40kgs of hydrogen out of NOTHING.

I’d like to see how that works.


52 posted on 08/26/2014 1:10:03 AM PDT by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: AZLiberty
The relevant physics question is whether eight hydrogen atoms have less energy than one oxygen atom. If so, then converting one oxygen atom into eight hydrogen atoms will release energy — if it can be done. SHT (bad name for a company) claims it can.

Fissioning (splitting) atoms heavier than Lead (Pb) yields energy.

Fusioning (combining) atoms lighter than Lead yields energy.

Fissioning atoms lighter than Lead consumes energy.

Fusioning atoms heavier than Lead consumes energy.

That's why the Sun releases (rather than consumes) energy: It fusions Hydrogen into Helium.

That's why "Little Boy" (the Hiroshima bomb) and "Fat Man" (the Nagasaki bomb) released energy: They fissioned Uranium or, respectively, Plutonium (which both have Atomic Numbers greater than that of Lead).

So, to answer you question: Fissioning Oxygen into Hydrogen consumes energy.

Regards,

53 posted on 08/26/2014 1:39:41 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: AZLiberty
Rainbow Stew
54 posted on 08/26/2014 1:53:37 AM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq))
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To: AZLiberty

Kevmo?


55 posted on 08/26/2014 3:13:50 AM PDT by EEGator
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To: FredZarguna

Thank you for the detailed explanation.


56 posted on 08/26/2014 3:23:17 AM PDT by DB
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To: AZLiberty

Sure, American exceptionalism???How much “funding” did 0bummer give them for their campaign contributions???


57 posted on 08/26/2014 3:26:09 AM PDT by CincyRichieRich (In Times of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Becomes a Revolutionary Act.)
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To: AZLiberty

Solar Hydrogen Trends, Inc.; ticker symbol SHTI? My leg feels pulled.


58 posted on 08/26/2014 3:34:34 AM PDT by Nachoman (libertyarmstx.com is now open!)
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To: spokeshave
Transmute!
59 posted on 08/26/2014 3:55:15 AM PDT by Rodamala
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To: AZLiberty

500 watts in 225 watts out. Hmmm


60 posted on 08/26/2014 3:57:34 AM PDT by WriteOn (Truth)
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