Posted on 08/25/2014 10:16:16 PM PDT by AZLiberty
If they were just talking about electrolysis, then the Second Law would preclude their result. But they’re claiming some sort of nuclear process, where oxygen breaks down into hydrogen, producing energy.
I don’t know if it’s true, but it’s fun to think about. Time will tell.
No, they claim they’re separating oxygen atoms into hydrogen atoms — a very startling claim.
If the inventors start dying of radiation poisoning I’ll take them much more seriously. ;^)
The relevant physics question is whether eight hydrogen atoms have less energy than one oxygen atom. If so, then converting one oxygen atom into eight hydrogen atoms will release energy — if it can be done. SHT (bad name for a company) claims it can.
It’s not a joke. It may be a lie — I don’t have enough evidence to know — but the claim is exactly as you said: converting oxygen into hydrogen, not liberating hydrogen from water molecules.
And there’s Alchemy too. Transmutation of Oxygen into a Hydrogen.
First, they don't have a way to use solar power to do hydrolysis, and don't claim to. They claim to be "transmuting oxygen into hydrogen."
Second, if we stipulate to a hypothetical [just for the sake of discussion] the process could actually be useful because, while you do lose energy in the form of heat in the process, that doesn't matter; the energy you've used to create the hydrogen is solar, so it's "free." The hydrogen freed by the process would be useful as a storage medium that Greenies would like, because it has "no carbon," unlike gasoline, which is essentially a hydrogen storage medium [also produced by solar energy] which releases carbon by-products on combustion.
Third. Despite what Greenies like, any process involving hydrogen as an energy storage medium is stupid (it is not a primary energy source on Earth, since all the free hydrogen on this planet bonded with other elements long ago or escaped into space.)
Why is it stupid? Because it has only about 1/4 of the energy density of gasoline when compressed and liquefied. A hydrogen "gas tank" would take you 1/4 of the distance without refueling. Worse, about half of the energy required to deliver hydrogen in usable form is burned up in the process of compressing the gas.
So, the Second Law is not the issue, because the hydrogen is produced via solar energy, and the energy available is "all net." Solar energy has to be stored somehow, and hydrogen "sounds good" as an energy storage material. But it isn't.
Summary: Even if it’s not a scam, it won’t work.
Ah, why didn't you say so? Here, take my money!
A joke because as a lie it's uproariously funny.
Fission of light elements doesn't produce energy, it requires energy. The protons in bound oxygen have a binding energy of 8 MeV per nucleon. Hydrogen has 0. That means you would need to supply 16 * 8MeV or 128MeV to "split" Oxygen. Producing, in addition to 8 new hydrogens per fission, plus 8 very high-energy (and very dangerous) neutrons.
Even if all the hydrogen produced were deuterium (an isotope of hydrogen with one neutron) you still can't make it work. For deuterons, the binding energy per nucleon is ~1.1 MeV. So in that case you would need to supply an energy of 8 * (8MeV - 1.1MeV) ~ 55 MeV for each fission.
How much energy is that in practical units? About 1.5 Gigawatt-hours to convert 18 grams of water to 18 grams of hydrogen. Not really feasible.
Grandpa Munster did it. I saw it on TV! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_pill
One US barrel is about 160 liters, which equals 160 kgs.
“...can convert 1 barrel of water into 200 kg of hydrogen”
Not only did they create hydrogen out of oxygen, they created about 40kgs of hydrogen out of NOTHING.
I’d like to see how that works.
Fissioning (splitting) atoms heavier than Lead (Pb) yields energy.
Fusioning (combining) atoms lighter than Lead yields energy.
Fissioning atoms lighter than Lead consumes energy.
Fusioning atoms heavier than Lead consumes energy.
That's why the Sun releases (rather than consumes) energy: It fusions Hydrogen into Helium.
That's why "Little Boy" (the Hiroshima bomb) and "Fat Man" (the Nagasaki bomb) released energy: They fissioned Uranium or, respectively, Plutonium (which both have Atomic Numbers greater than that of Lead).
So, to answer you question: Fissioning Oxygen into Hydrogen consumes energy.
Regards,
Kevmo?
Thank you for the detailed explanation.
Sure, American exceptionalism???How much “funding” did 0bummer give them for their campaign contributions???
Solar Hydrogen Trends, Inc.; ticker symbol SHTI? My leg feels pulled.
500 watts in 225 watts out. Hmmm
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