Posted on 07/06/2014 4:58:34 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
I checked back to see if I caught either of the articles she mentioned by date - July 2, 1942 and March 2, 1944. Negative on both.
Excellent link!
Great find. I’ve never seen it expressed so clearly before.
Thanks.
The average German must know things are not going well. Look at the German communique that admits that large forces of Army Group Center have been cut off and surrounded in Belorussia. Every German knows somebody who knows somebody in that pocket, just like Stalingrad.
But at least the Germans are giving somewhat accurate information to their people. If you were Japanese, by now you must believe the IJN has sunk about 50 American aircraft carriers and shot down several thousand planes. They may not be publishing maps any more.
The important thing is that the military and for the most part the civilian leadership of both countries already know the war is irretrievably lost. The defeat at the Philippine Sea and destruction of Japanese naval aviation will lead to the fall of Tojo’s government. But they won’t quit. In a few weeks, after the success of Operation Cobra and the disasters on the Eastern Front, Rundstedt will give Hitler the the advice “Make peace, you fools!” And he’ll be sacked for it.
The comparison is 1861 — at the war’s beginning, Union soldiers weren't told, and certainly didn't want to hear that they were being sent to fight & die to free the slaves.
In the Civil War that came later, step by step.
In WWII, it never really came.
mmm...
So which is it? Everyone knew Jews were being mass-murdered, or no one knew Jews were being mass-murdered?
Talk about revisionist history!
That’s true. I doubt too many Americans would send their sons to fight for the Jews. While not as segregated as the blacks, I believe there were a number of hotels and restaurants that would not serve Jews, if they were known as such.
On the other hand, not so many Americans would have fought for the Armenians in World War 1, or the Ukrainians in the Holodomor, or for the Chinese, or the Ethiopians, or Sudanese Christians today....
Can you imagine the outrage if this happened today?
And did you check out the republicans wanting to abolish the poll tax by constitutional amendment?
Times change....
Canada Ping!
It was controversial in its day. The plot is a gentile writer agrees to go "under cover," pretending to be Jewish to see first hand the subtle and not so subtle discrimination he would experience.
Darryl Zanuck got the idea of making a film based on the novel when he was denied membership in the Los Angeles Country Club because people wrongly thought he was Jewish.
Thanks for the link. That’s a powerful presentation.
My understanding is that most people after the war claimed they'd never heard of the Holocaust during the war.
Indeed, this is a key element in Holocaust deniers' conspiracy theories -- they claim the Holocaust was invented after the war by those dastardly CommunistJews, and it never really happened.
But these articles in the New York Times prove that at least some Americans were fully aware of the Holocaust during the war.
So the question has long been: why didn't more people know about it?
The link (post #19) provided us by fso301 supplies a key element -- Arthur "Punch" Sultzberger.
The Holocaust is unique in history for it's state-organized, systematic, industrialized mass murder.
But there have been a large number of mass-murderers since WWII, including Mao Tse Tung in China, Pol Pot in Cambodia, Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and any number in Africa, none of which have excited much attention in the US, at the time.
For example, Saddam's mass murders only became a real issue here when the Bushes needed them to help justify their own military adventures.
Point is, so far as I can remember, mass murders of alien populations were never, by themselves, a casus belli for Americans.
Drowned out as background noise by the events of a titanic global conflict. People "knew," but given everything else, it wasn't "real" until GIs walked through Buchenwald.
The Gulag was never "real." GIs never walked through the camps at Magadan.
Builds 100 Army hospital cars
http://railwaysurgery.org/Army.htm
http://www.med-dept.com/articles/ww2-hospital-trains/
And there was the Rabbis’ March on Washington in October 1943:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKQNHNdOmow
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/march.html
Thanks for the links on military hospital trains.
Many years after the war, one of my Dad’s units included such trains...
In those days the Democrat party was a coalition between Southerners and northern immigrant populations — groups which didn't always agree with each other, and which wily politicians like FDR, would try to reconcile by, in this example, slipping out the White House's back door to avoid embarrassment.
Then as now, many non-religious Jews (i.e. “Punch” Sultzberger) were loyal Democrats first, and Jews second (or third, if at all) in their political orientations.
Today, many observant Jews (Mark Levin to cite one) are similar to practicing Christians in their politics — conservative, Republican, pro-Isreal.
And today's versions of old Sultzberger, like lemmings, blindly follow Democrat party lines, even to the detriment of Israel.
Ol’ Punch felt so Jewish, he married and raised his children Episcopalian.
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