Posted on 06/14/2014 11:16:42 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
There is absolutely no evidence, aside from rhetoric, to suggest that Russia in general and Putin in particular have been converted to Christianity. Instead, what we are witnessing is a massive Russian “active measures” campaign that has ensnared many American conservatives, convincing them that Putin is somehow a legitimate alternative to President Obama’s decadent worldview. It is troubling to see some of these conservatives endorse Russia’s invasion and occupation of Ukraine.
The term “active measures” refers to influence operations that use agents of influence, disinformation and propaganda. ....
Rather than embrace Christianity, the evidence shows Russia has embraced the Russian Orthodox Church, always a tool of Soviet intelligence. As we noted in an AIM Report back in 1984, John Barron’s authoritative book, KGB, said that the KGB’s Directorate 5 is assigned to “clandestinely control religion in the Soviet Union” and to “insure that the Russian Orthodox Church and all other churches serve as instruments of Soviet policy.” Barron added, “The directorate placed KGB officers within the Russian Orthodox Church hierarchy and recruits bonafide clergymen as agents. Much of its work is accomplished through the Council on Religious Affairs, which is heavily staffed with retired and disabled KGB officers.”
Nothing has really changed. In fact, the Russian Orthodox Church is even closer to the regime these days, and is still so morally bankrupt that it published a 2014 calendar in honor of Soviet mass murderer Joseph Stalin. Former KGB officer Konstantin Preobrazhensky has called it “Putin’s Espionage Church,” and devotes a major portion of his book, KGB/FSB’s New Trojan Horse, to its use by the Russian intelligence service.
(Excerpt) Read more at aim.org ...
What gives us the right to tell Russia they need to do business in dollars? If I was Russian, I certainly wouldn’t want to be forced to use dollars either. Also, what business is it of ours how they run their own country? You see, I see America as some arrogant busybody these days. We don’t respect other sovereign nations to do what they want so long as it isn’t a direct threat to our own national interests. Yet, we’re so arrogant these days that we think we need to meddle in everything everywhere. Even worse, what are we pushing on everyone else? Moral depravity!
We’re the world’s remaining superpower you know... Sorry, but that’s not what America was ever meant to be.
What gives them the right to do what they’re doing?
If you see “America” (funny you didn’t say “the USA”) as “some arrogant busybody”, then you must be liberal.
I’m not really including conservatives in the “we” that’s creating a mess of US foreign policy, but the liberals are representing/leading America right now. That’s what other nations have to deal with.
“Never mind aiding terrorists that attack Israel.”
But... don’t we also do that?
No, the liberals do. Which is why we’re trying to get liberals out of power here.
That is certainly correct.
And it is the liberals calling the USA “America” (especially Obama), diluting its identity.
“What gives them the right to do what they’re doing?”
Um, the same right that allows us to meddle in Egypt, Libya, and Syria I suppose...
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. How dare we say Russia can’t exert influence on neighboring nation states while we were meddling in those same states ourselves? Have you forgotten that we backed the rebellion in Kiev that overthrew the legal government? Now we dare complain that there’s a counter rebellion against the rebellion?
Quit looking at everything from only America’s perspective. Look at how other nations might perceive us. They certainly have as much right to exist and pursue their interests as we, and just because they don’t use dollars or kowtow to American might doesn’t mean they’re our enemies.
Tell me America isn’t a busybody on the world stage right now. So what if we conservatives don’t want to be like that? The liberals who are running America just can’t avoid sticking their noses in everyone’s business.
“But... don’t we also do that?”
I’ll answer that. Yes. We do. We also back the terrorists who are beheading Christians, too.
It’s only the liberals that have “meddled”. And you really have to stop calling the liberals “we”.
You present the most coherent view. A lot of people see the world in black and white, rather than understanding the interests of leaders and their nations, or the histories and cultural differences that shape the policy of those nations.
Is Putin trying to rebuild the USSR? No. Probably not. He lived through the Soviet Union as one of its adherents, but saw what even the ardent members of the Russian Communist Party are aware of. It is just not a viable governing system. Comapared to all the other forms of government in history, communism ranks among the least sustainable. It didn’t even last a century, despite the fact it was engineered by very smart and academic people, much like the Third Reich was.
No, I’d say Putin sees the world through a more hyper-reactionary lens. For all the alarm bells about Dugin, I doubt his influence over Putin is as grand as some claim. This being said, Putin certainly has a backward looking ideology. He prefers the way things worked before the fall of monarchies. He wants to resurrect the Russian Empire, not the Soviet Union.
Obama called Russia a ‘regional power’. Clearly lunacy. Its a world power, but militarily, it is a ‘regional player’. That is, it is concerned primarily with the countries around it. Russia is not about to launch a war in Africa for example.
With regard to Christianity, Orthodoxy is an ancient tradition, as close as you will get to the old Apostolic traditional way of worship. I am not a member of the protestant-supremacy caucus on FR who regard all Catholic and Orthodox countries as ‘not Christian’. Looking at the track record of protestant countries, most of which outside Africa now have open celebration of sodomy among other issues, if this is true then Christianity is in an even more dire state than we realize. Those who criticize the Russian Orthodox Church do so with little knowledge of the church’s history going back to the Imperial and Soviet eras. Were there spies and infiltrators during Soviet times? Yes, but the vast majority of Christians in Russia were persecuted and many were killed, including priests. The communists in Russia absolutely resented the role the church had played in court life during the Czar’s reign.
Now that the Soviet Union has collapsed, the church is re-assuming its centuries old post as part of the state, involved in matters of moral choice. This is not absolute as of yet (Russia still has a long way to go on abortion for example), but as new converts and a growing church-attendance strengthen the power of the Patriarch, the church becomes a competing interest in the political arena.
For those who do not like this, bear in mind that in a much more diffused way, we also had this be the case up until recently. Churches were heavily influential in political life and one’s affiliation was a big political factor. Its why such a huge deal was made out of Kennedy’s Catholicism. Religion only becomes a non-factor in political life when it ceases to exist in any meaningful way.
This is now occurring in Western Europe and our own country, with few exceptions.
Am I interested in defending Ukraine from Russia? I have yet to hear a particularly good reason why I should be.
1) There is no popular appetite for such a thing
2) I can see little threat to America itself here
3) Ukrainians elected in what was deemed to be a fair election, a corrupt leader, they threw him out and elected someone else, but has anything changed? Ukraine is likely to remain as corrupt as ever. Meet the new boss.
4) Historically, Ukraine is a badly drawn country in the first place with regard to ethnic groups.
5) Do I really want to aid the cause of the European Union which is just as dictatorial as Russia yet twice as decadent? Not really
6) I can’t see any improvement in living standards for Ukrainians as a result of turning west. Just a massive population outflow.
When we have a real problem, the actively neo-Marxist Democrat party destroying America one court decision, one executive order, one mandate at a time, are we really expected to be concerned by an imperialist power’s geographic expansion an ocean away? The Founders did warn against such ventures.
Like it or not, the majority of Americans voted for Obama and they gave him control of the senate. I hate to think of the man as my president, but for whatever reason, he is the president of the United States and he is setting out policy at home and abroad. The Repubicans are certainly too feckless to stop him.
China is structuring it’s Navy to support global expansion, and is having to build ships to help compensate for their lack of forward bases.
The reason they don’t have forward bases is because we still have enough “super power” resources to protect the other nations in the area that China wants to conquer and use as forward bases.
In modern warfare, you can’t just sit at home for 30 years and wait for the enemy to arrange the world’s resources, alliances, military, and global bases to their liking, and save you for last.
Russia is engaged in a military action against the West and the NATO nations, they are threatening Finland with attack, they have a long range goal that is not about minding their own business.
You can see what he’s saying though. Take this example.
Mexico is a member of NAFTA, which makes them a special trade partner of the USA, not unlike how Ukraine was in a very entwined economic relationship with Russia (both heavy industries and gas).
I think we’d both agree the government of Mexico, while legitimately elected, is beyond corrupt. In fact, I’d rank Mexico’s government as one of the most corrupt in the world.
Let’s say Russia invited Mexico into an economic partnership that would require they leave NAFTA, but they refused. Then a popular uprising to join this new partnership sparked riots and the militia threw out the elected president.
What would we do? If our president had American interests at heart, you and I both know, we’d have tanks over the border to re-install the elected pro-NAFTA government within hours.
It’s simply a matter of looking out for your nation’s interest, and we have done it before in Latin America.
Until 9/11, Hezbollah killed more Americans than all other terrorist groups combined. They are state-sponsored proxy murderers for Iran.
Helping an Islamist regime with that history to obtain nuclear weapons is not an example of "being on the right side."
As though Orthodoxy and Christianity are mutually exclusive
What a tool!
No, he doesn't.
And here is probably where the two FR sides of the issue divide. You see a compulsion and loyalty to ‘the West’ whereas others see a stark difference between what ‘the West’ was 40 years ago, and what it is today.
The progressives claim the mantle of ‘the West’, where most countries have mass abortion access, feminism, homo rights, trans rights, spit on traditions, have Orwellian hate speech laws, and more often than not support the worst radicals in the Middle East. Did you read the story about hundreds of Jihadists heading to Iraq... from the UK?
So while many Freepers are not supportive of Putin, they’re not crazy about the Euroleftists either
Oh, Putin could invade Ukraine whole if he wanted, even if he had to carpet bomb Kiev. He has more to lose than to gain by doing so however.
The implied contrast between “Euroleftists” and the US is pretty sketchy as well.
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