Posted on 03/24/2014 7:38:15 AM PDT by thetallguy24
A few weeks ago, I wrote about how the sweeping acceptance of gay marriage in recent years is owed in large part to Christianity. Rejecting the rigidly hierarchical and stratified societies of the ancient world, Jesus Christ taught the equal dignity of all persons, proclaimed that the meek shall inherit the earth, and declared that the last shall be first and the first shall be last. The Western world has been working out the logic of these subversive teachings ever since, with the institutional transformation of marriage being the latest, though surely not the last, example of its social, moral, and political consequences.
But what if the next institutions to be leveled by the Christian ideal of equality are the churches themselves?
I'm not talking about all of the churches. I mean those that have resisted reforming themselves in light of women's equality — and specifically those that resist this reform from the top down, with ecclesiastical authorities enforcing male-centered dogma and doctrine. That's mainly the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons).
A contrast with Protestantism and Judaism is instructive. There are, of course, many gender traditionalists in both faiths — evangelical Protestants and Orthodox Jews. But there is no overarching authority in either religion stipulating that traditionalism is the only valid form of belief. That means there are other options besides apostasy for dissenters. Don't like the traditionalism of your congregation? If you're a Protestant, you can find a more liberal, mainline alternative. If you're a Jew, look for a Conservative, Reform, or Reconstructionist synagogue.
But in both Catholicism and Mormonism, there's often nowhere else to go. It's either love it or leave it.
(Excerpt) Read more at theweek.com ...
Just reading the headline, they are wrong.
The conservative Catholic Church had an exodus in the 70s just after the misinterpretation of Vatican II. The groovy kumbaya faction has not experienced any real growth.
Now, the seminaries are filling with the devout (after THEY had been taken over by imposters), as are habit-clad, conservative convents.
World Youth Day, started by Blessed Pope John Paul II, .
experiences a visitation by a million youth at every meeting. That’s with the Pope. He’s a conservative Catholic, DUH, answerable, not to Obama, but to God and the Church Doctrine, biblically based.
The annual March for Life in January, each January, snowy rainy windy, nasty, sees a visitation by 400,000 young people, of all faiths, not Muslim, if that can be called a faith, there, not to drink and party, but to stand out in the weather to represent pro life forces.
Average age 22.
The exodus happened a long time ago. Conservative Catholics are solid.
I agree there may be a mass exodus, but of the “faithless.”
Must mean the primitive belief that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.
ME, MD and WA passed gay marriage into law by vote of the people in 2012. I will be very surprised if a bunch more don’t vote it in this year.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a shift in public opinion so dramatically fast.
The president’s official (though not real) opinion as of 18 months ago is now widely considered to constitute hate speech.
You’re welcome. And you explained it better than I did.
“I think it’s likely that over the coming years these churches are going to confront a stark choice: Reform themselves in light of equality or watch their parishioners opt for the exits. In droves.”
Ok I just read the article.
He did not consult the Catechism. It is absolutely amazing that people can comment on religion, but not review the tenets of the religion they are talking about.
Wow.
The Catholic Church is 2000 years old. It was founded by Jesus. This writer thinks he can opine on it without cracking a book nor speaking to a priest.
Un believable.
It constitutes three sentences in the catechism. Here’s one of them:
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
This guy thinks the Church is going to change, that God will change. He thinks God changes His views on sin and eternal life based on ratings.
He thinks God attends Madison Avenue PR meetings.
Ratings.
Well, a lot of people I know who were raised or at least baptized Catholic think this way, or should I say,’feel’?
The author seems to think filling the pews with numbers is the important part of “church”.
The important part of church is that we make disciples. We are realistic that not all the disciples we make will add to the numbers in OUR pews, but pews overall. And true disciples will not populate the pews of apostate churches.
That more people will know the truth is the goal of the outreach of a church, not a statistic that gains publicity. There is no Godly point to gaining a large congregation of false disciples by twisting scripture to be all inclusive and accepting of unrepentant members with sinful lifestyles.
Nifty analogy.
I’ve always been challenged when attempting to reconcile that scripture with this one:
Luke 19:50
But Jesus said to him, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.”
What version are you quoting from. NIV, KJV, NLT, others stop at verse 48 in Luke 19.
There are many more states that passed their amendments in the 70%+ ranges who would be a long way away from repealing their amendments with another popular vote. But there are a smaller number of states that only passed theirs in the 50%-low60% ranges in the middle of the last decade that would probably be vulnerable now to repeal. To the state, defining marriage only takes 50% +1 vote. But I don’t think they will bother if the folks in black robes keep striking them down.
Freegards
Matthew 10:34-38
New International Version (NIV)
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.”
He came so that his blood could sanctify us, not so that we can wallow in our sin and still seek his face at the end of our lives (if we even can guess when our last moment on earth will be.) He will separate the sheep from the goats when he returns and he could return today or tomorrow. If he came to separate us from the things that hold us back in our sanctification, would that not include a church that was steeped in wrong thinking and heresy? I shudder to think what these “judges” of the Word will face in the hereafter.
The guy’s living in fantasy land, there is a mass exodus of the faithful, from liberal churches; and they’re not moving to more conservative communions, they’re exiting Christianity altogether. Those who leave the traditionalist churches generally do the same.
I think if the courts don’t play ball with them that is what we will probably see in some places. But I don’t think we will have any repeals by popular vote until the courts force them to fight that way. So far has any state repealed their amendment that way?
“I don’t think I’ve ever seen a shift in public opinion so dramatically fast.”
It’s pretty amazing. In my opinion a result of it being framed as a ‘civil right’ and the conditioning to think that the state actually defines marriage. Whenever we started to vote on the issue it tacitly reinforced the idea that ‘gay marriage’ is indeed possible just as long as judges, pols, or the voting majority agree that it is. That’s the only way the state has to define marriage, at least in the modern era.
Freegards
Jesus said to his disciples, "If you, being evil . . .". There is no 'dignity' in people, just sinners in need of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.
I didn’t say anything about divorce and remarriage. I don’t really care. Jesus said it.
If your question is “What should I do when Jesus’ teachings are inconvenient to my life?”, I would say that is a jagged little pill that all Christians must swallow.
Damon Linker’s specialty is insinuating himself inside of conservative Christian groups in order to trash them later on in the secular press. The truth-value of his contention here has been amply put to the test by the Episcopal Church USA, RIP.
I expect the Supremes in the next year or two to require all states to recognize all gay marriages conducted in another state. Arguably, this is constitutional, based on the full faith and credit clause.
Although it is interesting that states are split on the issue of first cousin marriage, which IMO is or should be a non-issue.
Of those states that don't allow cousin marriages to be conducted within their borders, most still consider cousin marriages performed outside their borders to be valid. But there are, I think, a couple that don't.
Which would seem to be a precedent for states refusing to recognize gay marriages performed in other states. But then cousin marriage isn't a big hot button issue, though I wouldn't be surprised if there are as many or more of them as of same-sex marriages.
We could WISH it was mere hedonism. Like eating too much candy or going on too many vacations.
What it really is, is a psycho-spiritual train wreck, but one that’s fiercely addictive. It has huge thrills at the expense of making everything else go distinctly to hell. And it’s surrounded by a miasma of lies.
Satan doesn’t always come as a snake. Sometimes he comes as a cute little puppy. But then, embraced, he gets your heart snarling and barking like any rabid pitbull. And you LIKE it and can’t quit. Till the love of the Lord breaks through (and sometimes, when you see in others how ugly the thing is that you’ve embraced yourself).
He does read like a weasel.
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