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The crisis in Ukraine — America can be deferential no more
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^
| March 8, 2014
| Nile Gardiner
Posted on 03/09/2014 1:14:30 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Alberta's Child
Clinto defined this? “......Russia as a partner with the United States. Hand in hand, the former rivals would address the major international crises of the day”.....
“Hand in hand” alright. Russia invades Ukraine and odumbo send troops to “resist”, or is that “assist” them? Not a lot more being said about that by the MSM.
41
posted on
03/09/2014 6:58:41 AM PDT
by
DaveA37
To: Alberta's Child
Sorry, but Saddam Hussein was not a benign dictator and you are really wrong to try to use that term in any way to describe him.
42
posted on
03/09/2014 7:03:53 AM PDT
by
joseph20
(...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
To: joseph20
Sorry if that bothers you, but that’s the truth. The Middle East is “a wretched hive of scum and villainy,” as Obi-Wan Kenobi once said, and among all of the ruthless villains over there Saddam Hussein was far from the worst.
43
posted on
03/09/2014 7:08:00 AM PDT
by
Alberta's Child
("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
To: Alberta's Child
You have some kind of revisionist history to back up your claim that Saddam Hussein was a benign dictator?
How about the aggressive invasion of Kuwait? How about gasing his own people with chemical weapons? How about the mass-murder of millions of his own people? Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator of the worst kind. He fed his enemies children into plastic shredding machines while the parents watched. He had rape rooms and torture rooms. The guy was just plain evil and a terrible human being. For you to say that he was a ‘benign dictator’ really shows your ignorance.
44
posted on
03/09/2014 7:15:51 AM PDT
by
joseph20
(...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
To: raybbr
Identifying people who admire Putin as Putinistas should not be an insult. They treat him with awe and reverence, like Christ. They claim his grievances are legitimate and his will to power makes sense. He has been wronged by Soros, the Rothchilds, World Jewry, and the nefarious and ever present sneaky neo-cons, no less. They see a strong man on a horse, a scuba diver, a bare-chested wrestler of wild animals, and they become gushy with feminine cooing, enthusiasm that is normally seen by little girls at a Justin Bieber concert. Just as there were Americans who hated Roosevelt so much that they were Hitlerites until he declared war on the USA, there are those who are Putinistas. Admittedly, Obama is a jerk and a threat to American liberty; he's liable to bankrupt us. Yet why two wrong-headed statist leaders make a right (pun intended) is beyond my ken.
As for what Putin thinks, this link, I believe hits on it pretty well and explains some of the possibilities to concern ourselves with. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/03/02/how-putins-worldview-may-be-shaping-his-response-in-crimea/
45
posted on
03/09/2014 7:23:57 AM PDT
by
elhombrelibre
(Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
To: joseph20
I’ve decided that Mr. Alberta’s child is, as you say, a revisionist of the worst type. To fit his weird worldview, he ignores facts and changes them too. As he sees it, Putin’s a victim. As most people see it, Russia is a victim of Putin.
46
posted on
03/09/2014 7:26:07 AM PDT
by
elhombrelibre
(Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
To: elhombrelibre
Your assertion that Europeans have been pushing for Ukraine to join NATO is not supported by any facts.
The US State Department's official position, for many years, has been that Ukraine should join the EU.
They've spent, by their own account, some $5 billion in an effort to make that happen.
Which is interesting given the fact that some nations that are IN the EU have anti-EU factions growing within them; one is France.
The EU is globalism. Nations that join supranational organizations yield some of their national authority to the organization, which of course opens the door to increasing loss of national sovereignty.
Conservatism by definition is anti-globalism, because conservatism by definition would be pro-national sovereignty.
Covert foreign actors aiding and abetting the ouster of a government is an affront to national sovereignty.
We don't like it here in America when there is foreign influence in America, but somehow a few posters here on FR have no problem with the US toppling Other nation's governments.
47
posted on
03/09/2014 7:54:39 AM PDT
by
PieterCasparzen
(We have to fix things ourselves)
To: PieterCasparzen
You’re the second person today who thinks the EU and NATO are the same thing. When people do that type of sloppy writing, I find it difficult to continue to read their profundities, especially if they’re a Putinista.
48
posted on
03/09/2014 7:58:10 AM PDT
by
elhombrelibre
(Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
To: joseph20
Did you really call Hussein a benign dictator? You lost me there.
They were all "manageable" by the West, the core of which is UK/US.
Your buddy Hussein actually worked for CIA back in the day.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
49
posted on
03/09/2014 8:02:56 AM PDT
by
PieterCasparzen
(We have to fix things ourselves)
To: elhombrelibre
Victoria Nuland did not mention NATO in her recent speech.
She mentioned “European Aspirations”.
$5 billion American taxpayer dollars for European Aspirations.
50
posted on
03/09/2014 8:09:11 AM PDT
by
PieterCasparzen
(We have to fix things ourselves)
To: elhombrelibre
Thanks for the replies. I can understand not liking Putin. I can also understand the respect he gets from others on FR. Putin is a strong leader something people here crave in our politicians.
51
posted on
03/09/2014 10:04:11 AM PDT
by
raybbr
(Obamacare needs a death panel.)
To: joseph20
It’s the Middle East, and as long as you have tribal governance that kind of thing will never end. Get used to it, or stop listening to the news.
52
posted on
03/09/2014 12:23:06 PM PDT
by
Alberta's Child
("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
To: elhombrelibre
I don't know who you are referring to, but when it comes to political and policy pressures in the U.S. over the years there hasn't been any difference between the treatment of Ukraine in terms of the EU and NATO. To wit:
Thus the West collectively made a terrible mistake at the NATO summit in April 2008 by not placing Ukraine (and Georgia) on a clear path to NATO membership. Had we done so, the question of EU economic relations would doubtless have been more easily resolved. Ambiguity over Ukraine, leaving it in a no mans land between Russia and NATO, obviously didnt lead to Ukrainian stability, domestically or internationally. And the same vital question for Kievs citizens abides: Is their future with the West or Moscow?
--- John Bolton, Los Angeles Times Op-Ed, 12/3/13
This isn't some academic figure writing from an ivory tower on a university campus somewhere. Bolton is a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and was a key foreign policy figure in the Bush administration.
None of this should come as any surprise to anyone who has been following these people over the years. The expansion of NATO has been one of the biggest priorities of the "neo-conservative" movement in the U.S. government for years.
53
posted on
03/09/2014 12:40:00 PM PDT
by
Alberta's Child
("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
To: PieterCasparzen
She also said “F... the EU.” Sounds good to me.
To: Tailgunner Joe
Yes, she said that, after the mention that the UN chief Ban Ki-Moon was going to appoint a UN ambassador to enter the mix.
This was said in the sense that EU efforts were not getting enough results quickly enough.
Results, that is, towards getting Ukraine to join the EU.
Nuland and Pyatt also discussed which Ukrainian leaders should be in the new Ukrainian government and which should not.
Clearly the US Department of State is setting up the government that it wants in Ukraine.
55
posted on
03/09/2014 6:04:34 PM PDT
by
PieterCasparzen
(We have to fix things ourselves)
To: PieterCasparzen
The EU was not taking advantage of the situation because they are weak on Russia and dependent on Russian energy. The only reason Ukrainians even want to be in the EU is because they want to be better friends with the USA.
To: Tailgunner Joe
The only reason Ukrainians even want to be in the EU is because they want to be better friends with the USA
What do you mean by "better friends", pen pals ?
Specifically what changes are the Ukrainians seeking in their relationship with the US ?
57
posted on
03/09/2014 6:23:34 PM PDT
by
PieterCasparzen
(We have to fix things ourselves)
To: PieterCasparzen
EU membership will help them join NATO. Russia’s imperialist aggression only justifies NATO’s expansion.
To: Tailgunner Joe
So the Ukrainian people want to join NATO ?
59
posted on
03/09/2014 7:08:11 PM PDT
by
PieterCasparzen
(We have to fix things ourselves)
To: NonValueAdded; GOPsterinMA
I understand Rashad is dating President JarrettDating a woman his own age? He's a disgrace to former athletes everywhere.
60
posted on
03/09/2014 11:20:27 PM PDT
by
Impy
(RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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