Here's How Much the Old Are Taking From the Young

finance.yahoo.com ^ | Nov 21, 2013 | Rick Newman

[posterchild]

Grandma’s gettin’ greedy — or so some people might say.

New data published by the Congressional Budget Office show elderly households receive far more in government benefits than they pay in taxes, while all other households pay more in taxes than they get back. The data are from 2006, the most recent year the necessary numbers were available. The general findings aren't surprising, since people stop working and paying payroll taxes when they retire, and Social Security and Medicare are chiefly meant to benefit the elderly in the first place.

But the benefit gap between elderly and non-elderly households may seem lopsided to some. The popularity of programs such as Medicare and Social Security shows the U.S. has met the goal, originating in the 1930s, of building a robust safety net for seniors and others unable to fully support themselves. But demographics have changed dramatically since those big entitlements went into effect, with fewer young people now financing the benefits received by many more older people. Many feel the imbalance amounts to generational theft, as a disproportionate and growing share of national wealth goes to supporting the lifestyles of the elderly rather than cultivating future generations.

[Sequoyah101]

fine, just return the money I’ve paid in to Fica, medi and medicare and I’ll take NOTHING at all.

I figure it is approaching 7 figures at a mere 3% interest.

Just more class warfare designed to divide the country.

[ErnBatavia]

Bullshit thread alert!

[Kenton]

WHO THE HECK IS SUPPORTING YOU?

Or, you might ask who was supporting YOU during your first 20 years or so. I'd never begrudge my father a dime. I owe him too much respect, and I consider this discussion to be reprehensible.

[DoughtyOne]

Sorry but that is complete BS.

You're welcome to your opinion.  So what's your solution ace?  Today's seniors have been paying in for over four decades.  You gonna change the game on them now that they're no longer working?

If you're a thinking person, you realize you can't do that.  You can't demand they participate by force during their formative years, then tell them, "So sorry, this isn't working so we're going to kill you and start over."  And that's the only alternative.

If younger folks want to talk about revampting the system, I'm all for it.  If it starts with verbage including today's seniors in it, you guys can go straight to hell.

The ratios have completely changed. You also need to consider that it’s a pyramid scheme that’s becoming top heavy with baby boomers.

God you guys are suckers.  Do you think our populace is bigger today than it was in 1950?  Yes there are a lot of Baby-Boomers retiring today.  It's going to continue too.  At the same time, our population has more than trippled since then.  Our work force is vastly larger than it was back then.  That means that there are way more folks paying into the system to dole out funds to those Baby-Boomers.  No I've heard the figures, just as you have.  Is it really the seniors born on U. S. soil who caused or gamed this system?  No.

Yes the ratios have completely changed.  Is that today's senior's fault?  No it isn't.  When today Seniors were pissed off about immigration out of control, (supposed) refugees from all over the world being flown in, illegal immigrants flooding in by the tens of millions, and asked folks to help them get the government to stop it, it was a real hoot to everyone.  The adults at the time knew it was going to cause massive problems.  Well, the joke is finally being played out.

I know of thousands of elderly people who were brought to our nation, who never worked a day in their lives on U. S. soil, and have been drawing Security for the last twenty plus years.  How is that today's seniors fault? 

Your generation, more than any other, has stacked the deck to benefit THEM at the expense of future generations while knowing there will be fewer of them to pay for it.

It's difficult to keep a straight face reading this 'stuff''.  My generation stacked the deck?  Is that right?  Tell me 'oh brilliant one', are you stacking the deck now?  No, you are playing the game as directed.  And now you know how the last generation stacked the deck.  They did the same damned thing.  They played the game as directed.  Only a simpleton could give this much thought at all, and come away thinking today's seniors didn't play fairly.  If you are playing fairly, then they were playing fairly.  They did what they were forced to do, just like you are.

I’d suggest your a little out of touch with certain expenses of younger people with respect to what is earned. Do you really think college expenses have only marched forward equal to the rate of inflation? I’m assisting my son with college expenses, I can’t believe how much more expensive it is now than when I went. The higher education model is broken.

Then fix it.  No, nevermind, it's easier to start blaming seniors because.. well because... well because they stacked the deck unfairly.  Here.  Here's a crying cloth.  Get it all out.  Like it or not, admit it or not, realize it or not, people have always come out of college with large debt.  You go to a university and you come away with an eduction and debt.  God, how unfair.

I hope you have plenty put away because relying on “the next generation to do it” isn’t a workable model and ultimately the money won’t be there.

I have never liked the way the Social Security system was set up.  I have never blamed seniors, because..., well because, because seniors didn't set the system up.  Your comments sound like the 14 year old girl who can't go out on her first date with a 22 year old man becuase mom and dad put their foot down.  Then she racts by saying, "That's not fair!"

Life isn't always fair.  Some of us never got to go to a univeristy let alone college.  We had to make do raising a family on limited income and creative financial thinking.  I could have blamed seriors plenty, because I could have used that Social Security money I was paying in.  Who couldn't?  I don't live my life that way.  If it makes you happy to do it, go ahead.  Frankly, it's obvious it's not making you happy, but what the hey..

Of course, at my age, I expect to be fully screwed by the time I need to retire, the only thing I can do is save as much as possible.

What if your social security money was placed in a Fixed Indexed Anuity, or a vehicle that was assured not to lose principle EVER, and would gain funds every year the S&P 500 rose, sometimes a bit even when it didn't?  What if it had 100% participation and no cap?  Do you think that might be an improvement on what is happening to your Social Security withholdings now?  Do you think it might be better than your TSA that is tied to Mutual Funds, which can have devistating impact on your returement funds when the market goes south?

What if you could set up a personal bank in short order, so that you could self-insure, make loans to yourself, and conduct much of your big financial expenditures, in a manner that would pay you interest, and not someone else?

This is the direction my thoughts would run if designing a retirement system to replace Social Security.

Very large deductables for vehicle, health, dental and vision service insurance policies would become the norm.  Cutting your insurance costs would do what?  It would allow you to put more money into your retirement savings.

I would like to see a welcome wagon at the H. R. office of your first employer.  There on day one, you would get one of the last loans you would ever need.  It would give you $10,000 on account.  You would pay that back over a few years, but day one you would benefit from being able to self-insure for all but catastropic problems.  Those problems would be covered by low cost insurance plans that would pick up where your $10,000 deductable left off.  Instead of your employer paying out big dollars for your health care, he could simply purchase the catastrophic coverarge, to cover what you couldn't.

In one to three years the $10,000 dollars would be yours.  You would then continue, seeing your social security pumped in, growing your funds by leaps and bounds.  Instead of having your pre-tax funds put into a TSA, your pretaxed funds could be put in a vehicle like the one I mentioned earlier.  That and your regaular Social Security and Medicare withholding would help you create a lot of wealth in a realtively few years.

Where would all these funds go?  What would they do?  Well they would go into investment vehicles.  They would then be invested across the nation, in a manner that saw these funds always grow, and never evaporate.  There are ways to do this.  And doing things this way, would help to ignite our economy.  Coupled with personal and corporate tax cuts, we could get our economy turned around in short order.  More jobs, more taxable incomes... we are only being limited by our short-sighted policies, and boneheaded blame games.

Damning seniors is one of them.     

I had a wife and son while I was in college, I know what tough is (given, my choices!). I suggest you look at some graphs of college expenses over the decades, they’re not linear.

It does not matter.  Costs and availabilities change all the time.  University fees go up, housing costs tank.  One generation has to pay 12-15% mortgage rates.  The next one pays 4 to 5%.  Thems are the breaks..

This also ignores that people your age went through a period in this country that was pretty good economically.

Actually, that was my parents generation.  My generation saw housing prices go out of sight, wages stagnate, retirement plans changed in the middle of the game, divorce rates skyrocket, jobs moved off-shore in the decades leading up to when I can retire.  So what.  It's up to me to react and do what I can to cope.  It isn't easy on any of us.

Now you spend $100,000 on a degree and can’t get a job once complete.

And seniors did this?  Gosh, I am sorry.  Bad polices in Washington, D. C. had everything to do with this.  Very little of it had to do with seniors..

It isn’t all whining.

Quite a bit of it is whining.

[SkyDancer]

That makes it different from a Ponzi scheme people keep yelling about. A Ponzi scheme is all voluntary. You choose to participate. Social Security is mandated you must pay into the system. Actually it’s taken from your pay.

[silverleaf]

May we please see the sum of taxes paid by those “elderly households” (and paid by their employers on their behalf) over their lifetimes before we compare?

And given the 50,000 names on the wall downtown, if any of those “elderly households” served in wartime or lost sons, husbands and brothers, may we please count their sacrifice toward what they owed the “government”

[SandRat]

How long have you been around Mr Ed?

I’ve been around since 1949.

[Graybeard58]

What are all the advantages of being elderly?

Ping me if you get a good answer to that question.

[Mears]

“I don’t believe that one group of people...elderly...should have all the advantages...”

—

Huh? I’m elderly-—what are you talking about?

Strange post.

.

[BlueStateMadness]

If someone was extorting money from you for protection, you would advocate everyone being extorted. Or am I missing something. Two wrongs make a right?

Your money was wasted. It’s gone. Just because someone robbed you slowly over your lifetime, doesn’t mean everyone forever should be bled over theirs.

Maybe you could get on board with stopping the blood letting?

I wil not apply for benifits if it still exists when I’m “elegible”. Sepecifically, because I know from what methods the benifits would come from.

I am elegible for unemployment while ashore on vacation. I choose not to collect out of principal. I am not unemployed, nor do I need or want the government’s assistance.

Maybe you and some of the other “proponents” here can shop around on the hc exchange for some prosthetic principals.

[Alaska Wolf]

Ping me if you get a good answer to that question.

So far I've gotten no responses.

[DoughtyOne]

Interest rates are low for the most part. There are still ways to make some fairly decent rates, and if you have some funds to protect so they’ll outlive you, I’d suggest you make it your job to call in a number of insurance and financial advisers to discuss your situation with them, one group at a time.

Explain to each group what the other is advising.

By the time you’ve spoken to five groups, you’ll likely be educated better than you are today, and will know a lot more about what your options are.

So many people come up with a plan, then refuse to ever deal with it again. You need to take a look at things again and again. Most times you’ll just get peace of mind. Other times you’ll see need for change, or catch an error, and have done yourself a real favor.

Be careful about adopting (figuratively). There are some real players out there.

[Paladin2]

Ponzi schemes are not "sustainable".

National/International Socialists eventually run out of other Peoples' money.

[Graybeard58]

It never stops. I think it's age envy.

[Paladin2]

Some of the elderly have the advantage of being able to go Galt and live their (~short) life out under the old rulz.

Let their kids and all the others deal with the chickens of their voting coming home to roost.

[Mears]

Great post and you’re right. The whining is quite humorous.

Poor babies.

.

[dalereed]

Never join a ponzi scheme late!!!

I’ve been on the colection end for 11 years @ 76 I should last it out.

[grania]

I was kidding about the adopting, just trying to convey the attitude readjustment that the younger generation should experience toward older people who prepared for the future.

My plan is pretty good, so far. I know the options. What has served me especially well is not having to dip into savings.

[DoughtyOne]

If someone was extorting money from you for protection, you would advocate everyone being extorted. Or am I missing something. Two wrongs make a right?

If two birds flew over and one pooped in your eye and didn't in mine, would that still be okay with you?  If we're going to make this up as we go, we can all have fun.

Your money was wasted. It’s gone. Just because someone robbed you slowly over your lifetime, doesn’t mean everyone forever should be bled over theirs.

Sorry, but I'm not going to allow you to guilt me out of an income in my retirement.  Instead I'll just laugh at you for being such an ignorant dolt.

Maybe you could get on board with stopping the blood letting?

Get on board yourself.  What official movement have you started or joined to change Social Security for future generations?  Tell me what the highlights of your plan are.

I wil not apply for benifits if it still exists when I’m “elegible”. Sepecifically, because I know from what methods the benifits would come from.

Great.  All the more for me.  I applaud those who paid in over forty years and think it's a sin to take their on money back.  Kudos to you.

I am elegible for unemployment while ashore on vacation. I choose not to collect out of principal. I am not unemployed, nor do I need or want the government’s assistance.

If you paid in unemployment insurance, benefits are yours to take.  This is rather comical.  "I paid into a life insurance policy for fifty years Bert, but I'll be damned if I'll let my wife collect when I die.  It's a matter of principle."

Maybe you and some of the other “proponents” here can shop around on the hc exchange for some prosthetic principals.

I'll be happy to do that, once I've seen evidence you've shopped around for a prosthetic brain.

[Paladin2]

"elderly households receive far more in government benefits than they pay in taxes"

Gee, which parties are responsible for THAT?