Posted on 10/26/2013 1:04:01 AM PDT by moonshinner_09
Cops took no more than 10 seconds to fire six or seven shots into the body of dying teenager Andy Lopez after seeing him with a toy pellet gun. Mr Lopez was spotted by deputies on Tuesday afternoon in Santa Rosa, California, carrying the toy rifle, which they mistakenly thought was a real assault weapon. The time that elapsed between when officers reported the sighting to dispatch and then reported shots fired was only 10 seconds. Hundreds of local residents marched on Wednesday night to remember the popular teen and protest at the senseless shooting. They chanted 'We need justice' as they questioned how the deputies could mistake a pellet gun for an assault rifle.According to a police statement, Lopez was twice instructed to put down his weapon, officers opened fire after he failed to comply - only 10 seconds later. Sixteen seconds later, the cops radioed for medical assistance. Ethan Oliver, who lives across the street, told KTVU.com that the deputies continued to shoot at the boy, even after he had fallen to the ground. Oliver said he went outside after hearing two gun shots and by that time Lopez was already on the ground. ‘Then the cops went at it again and unloaded like six to seven shots,’ he said.When asked if he meant that the deputy shot Lopez while he was on the ground, Oliver said, ‘Yeah. Exactly what I saw.’ Authorities haven't responded to his claims, but it raises the possibility that Lopez was still alive when he hit the ground after the first two shots were fired.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
I would love to get all outraged over this. 10 Seconds seems like a vanishingly short amount of time for anyone to react. However, the last time, I got mad was when the local new played a 911 tape of the screams of a “small child” being chased down and brutally murdered by a rogue, vigilante member of a neighborhood watch. We all know how that turned out. The cops in this case may be murderous thugs. But, we DO know that collectively the media is a lying sack of scummage. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if 6 months down the line, we find out that none of the currently reported “fact” are indeed true.
-snip-
and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
“Not looking good for the police in this case at all.”
No, you are wrong. The boy who was wearing a hoodie and originally had his back to the police, had a replica weapon, did NOT drop it when told to by the police officer. Instead he turned and raised it toward the officer who reacted as trained. This air soft gun DID NOT have the legally required ORANGE muzzle all such replicas must have.
My girlfriend and I were in the parking lot of Harbor Freight Tools in Stockton, California, two months ago when a young Hispanic man, about 22-23, in an orange traffic work vest, came running out between two parked cars with a look of terror on his face. About twenty feet behind him another young Hispanic man about 24 years old, clean shaven, in black sweats, was chasing him with a stubby barreled AR-15 with a collapsible stock, trying to get a bead on him. I could clearly see the barrel was dead black, no orange tip. My girlfriend said “get us out of here!” As she started sliding down in the seat, and I checked my rear view mirror and found I could not backout as a car was blocking us. The only way was right between them. I gunned the engine and we went between the runner and the guy with the gun. I got another good look at the gun. No orange. I was hitting my phone control and telling my phone to call 911, as we hit the street.
Within two minutes six Stockton PD cars and a swat team pulled down Waterloo Road heading for the strip mall. We turned around to meet them. My girl friend and I were the ONLY ones of the ten 911 callers that called to report the man with the gun that actually met with the police. We spotted the guy in the vest at a store front “church” next door to Harbor Freight and pointed him out to the police. He played “no habla ingles!” for about ten minutes. Even the two “pastors” of the “church” played dumb. My girlfriend offered to translate, being fluent in Spanish, at which point it turned out he spoke English.
He claimed he got bored while guarding the “church” (hence the traffic safety vest), so he and a buddy decided to play cops and robbers in the parking lot with a couple of air soft guns. He wouldn’t give up his buddy who he said was in the “church” but finally one of the “pastors” brought out the buddy wearing, a bearded young man in a white shirt and tie. This WAS NOT the man my girlfriend and I saw chasing the guy in the vest. . . nor did he, as he claimed to the police, also have an air soft gun. He was, in fact, totally terrified when I first saw him running from the guy with the AR-15! I pulled one of the cops over and told him “This is not the guy we saw. The guy we saw was clean shaven and was wearing sweats!”
The guy’s story agreed with the first guy’s. . . playing cops and robbers with air soft guns. There were now six cops standing around armed with REAL AR -15s. They were pissed. The stores in the mall were all in lock-down. The cops demanded to know where the air soft guns were. They wanted to inspect them. Buddy says “In the trunk of my car.”
The cop says let’s go. They come back with two AK-47 replicas made of machined metal. . . with orange tipped barrels! Neither was the gun I saw. They were quite heavy, and if not for the orange tip, almost impossible to tell from a real AK. they were heavier than the police AR-15s. The cop’s had NEVER seen such well made replicas. I tell the cops that’s not the gun I saw and that having managed The Olde Sacramento Armoury, I AM familiar enough with firearms to know what I saw!
In any case, the officers told the young men that had they rolled in WHILE they were still carrying them, they would most likely have SHOT them, orange barrels or not, because the police are trained to IGNORE the orange barrel because gang members are painting orange barrel tips on real guns! And kids paint out the orange tips on toys. They can’t know what’s real and what’s not. . . so, for their own safety, they have to err on the side of it being real. “I would not want to be calling your family down to the morgue to identify your body, but that’s what WILL happen.”
My girl friend and I are positive the air soft story was a cover-up. That gun was the real McCoy. That guy was terrified. My driving between them may have given him enough separation to let the runner time to duck into the door of the “church” to safety.
You may have noticed my use of quotes around certain words. We don’t think the “church” was a church at all. How many churches have guards? How many have no women come out to check on things when there is a disturbance after services? How many have pastors who don’t speak up when members are in trouble? Who don’t wear crosses? Who don’t invite the police in? And pointedly block the view inside? Whose members sport prison and gang tats? Hmmmm. A week later the “church” storefront was for lease.
The important take from this story is that police cannot take chances. A thirteen or fourteen year old these days can be as tall as six feet, some sport facial hair. With a hoodie? Carrying a realistic firearm which is being turned toward you? Would you think it was a toy?
Back in the 60s they had -really- good toy guns with wood stocks, loud powder caps and the whole shebang.
I ran all over Hell’s half acre with very realistic looking pistols and rifles.
At no time did anyone I encountered find it necessary to fill me full of lead.
Back then we had peace officers.
Now we have cops posing as paramilitary without the noble restraint.
This is bullshit.
Why were you in that neighborhood with your girlfriend?
Regarding your #2, see here:
The Box O’ Truth - The Buick O’ Truth
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm
As you say, a car door isn’t much in the way of cover, even for pistol rounds, let alone a rifle.
Yep, you have swallowed the cool-aid and taken a dose of ignorance to boot. I’s obvious you have never handled one of these firearms.
An Ak-47 isn’t capable of doing anything but laying there by itself, it takes a person to hold it and fire it. Only a highly trained person could fire “40 aimed shots in about 30 seconds” and only if the AK was a fully automatic version. Of which there are very few on the streets, most are in safes. Muzzle rise will prevent anyone else from having 40 aimed shots in 30 seconds. Not to mention a 40 round magazine is much more likely to jam.
You have swallowed the hype and are pushing it. Cars kill more people then Ak-47s, as do peoples hands. Should the cops be free to shoot anyone who fails to drop those within 10 seconds?
I am not justifying anything. None of us are fully informed as the circumstances of the shooting to make any judgment any way.
On the surface it looks really bad for the officers and that may prove to be the case.
On the other hand, you may wish to read my posts and ponder what might have been going through the officers minds in the brief time they had to make a decision that may have cost many bystanders their lives if teh police made the wrong call.
The kid was in an area known for violent gang activity, including shootings with AK-47 type rifles.
The kid was big enough to look adult and the gang banger hoodie he was wearing made it hard to determine his age.
He was carrying a weapon that look very similar to a very illegal short barreled AK-47SU “Krinkov” type machine gun fitted with a similarly illegal and highly recognizable 30-40 round magazine , not the equally highly recognizable ridiculous looking 10 round magazine.
The weapon he was carrying DID NOT look like a pellet gun or Air Soft Gun because the identifying orange barrel tip used to keep these toys from being confused with a real weapon by police and prevent these kinds of mistaken shootings had been removed.
I have no idea what the true facts are, but under the circumstances the police officers had every right to assume they were facing a fully armed unknown person who fit the gang banger profile carrying what appeared to be an illegal short barreled AK-47 SU type rifle fitted with a similarly illegal hi capacity 30-40 round magazine.
In the heat of the moment they acted accordingly to that perception.
This is a tragedy for sure, and possibly an accident where the judgment of the officers involved may be questionable, but I categorically reject and am very offended by peoples baseless assertions here that the officers involved were blood thirsty killers out to make a thrill kill on some innocent kid.
I also similarly reject and am offended by similar baseless assertions that the officers were reckless or negligent given the circumstances until there is firm, incontrovertible proof that this is the case.
Innocent until proven guilty applies to police too in my estimation.
The blame for this is squarely on the anti gun movement. They have created a irrational, and in this case, deadly fear in minds of law enforcement. I am in way excusing these two cops. They should go to jail for at least second degree murder. But, the true impetus behind this boy’s death are Sandy Hook anti gun nuts, Michael Bloomberg, the Brady campaign, etc.
Oh they’ve already admitted to killing this kid. We also know the “gun” was a toy. So we KNOW they misjudged the situation despite all of their military training as cops.
And a kid is dead. We know all those things.
We were going to Harbor Freight Tools to buy a tool she needed. Normally, it’s a safe neighborhood. . . well, as safe as anywhere in Stockton.
There were kids killed by police in just such scenarios then as well. . . They were considered tragic accidents and errors in judgement. There were also police killed by kids with real guns that the cops thought were toys. It’s a two way street.
But the sixties and the culture today ARE NOT the same. They simply are not. We’ve had fifty years of the drug war that have seen to that. . . and that has made all the difference.
investigation will be about as accurate as the Warren Commision, justified shooting.
Exactly what I was wondering. Did it have an orange tip which was removed? And why? Would that have even made a difference in this situation? Too many questions.
Didn’t happen here then and still doesn’t.
The cops here are mostly good ol’ boys.
They’re not crazy with fear.
Al this talk of who is at fault for the shooting and if the kid did something wrong is missing the real issue here. WTH were they doing going after him for bearing arms? Carrying a gun is a protected fundamental right.
This entire incident happened because the police infringed on a free person’s right to keep and bare arms! That’s the cause of this murder.
Ok....I see.
Good point!
And yet drugs are more available then ever.
Perhaps, just perhaps, the current methods are not working.
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