Posted on 09/03/2013 10:18:04 AM PDT by Lakeshark
Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution provides, in pertinent part:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
**snip**
This political season, the eligibilities of Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz are the subject of debate.
As much as we want certainty, the term “natural born Citizen” is not defined in the Constitution, in the writings or history of those who framed the Constitution, or in a demonstrable common and clear understanding in the former British colonies at the time the Constitution was drafted. Nor has the Supreme Court ever ruled on the issue, it probably never will.
The modifier “natural born” is not used anywhere else in the Constitution, and its precise origins are unclear, although it is assumed to be derived in some manner from the British common and statutory law governing “natural born Subjects.” **snip**
want to go on record again objecting to the term “birther.” If the term were confined to conspiracy theorists, that would be one thing. But it has become a tool to shut down even legitimate debate.
The term was used as a pejorative as part of a deliberate Obama campaign strategy to shut down debate on his issues **snip**
5. The Framers never expressed what “natural born Citizen” meant **snip**
6. “natural born Citizen” usage at the time of drafting the Constitution is uncertain **snip**
7. British common and statutory law doesn’t solve the problem **snip**
8. There Is No Requirement That Both Parents Be Citizens
(Excerpt) Read more at legalinsurrection.com ...
I'm saying this slippery slope argument is irrelevant. I live in the real world where I need to worry about 2016 not your hypothetical anchor baby President that Ted Cruz will pave the way for (in reality one thing has nothing to do with the other).
I also reject your implication that Ted Cruz is anything less then 100% American either because his father was Cuban or because his toilet training occurred in Calgary. If you are wondering why I keep mentioning that it's to highlight the absurdity of that implication. Does anyone really think he's "loyal" to Canada or Cuba? Break me off a piece of that kit kat bar.
He's completely American as far as I and most people are concerned, if you don't think so all I can say is I vehemently disagree. I and most of us here have no reason to oppose him running for President.
The facts, he's eligible whether you like it or not, no court is gonna say he's not, your invented definition of natural born is not shared by 99% of people. There are citizens at birth (natural born, that's what it means buddy) and there are naturalized citizens. There is nothing else. Natural born is not a "subset of citizen at birth" or any such BS. And no both parents don't have to be Americans, only 1, and the baby can be born in outer space that's in the nationality law.
Birth abroad to one United States citizen
For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true: The person's parents were married at the time of birth One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth; A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.
Cruz's mother meets those conditions so Cruz was a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. End of story. Incidentally Obama's mother did not because she was too young to meet that residency condition, so IF he was born outside of the US then he is not a natural born citizen.
If you won't come off your fanciful interpretation of "natural born" (that would horrible judicial activism for any court to go along with) then we have nothing further to discuss. We don't agree and I will never agree with your position.
As for anchor babies they shouldn't be citizens but they are currently being granted citizenship at birth like everyone born here other than diplomat's children (who I read in some cases are illegally being given the benefits of citizenship), if an anchor baby (grown to age 35 of course) was elected President today they would take office over anyone's objection. We need to change that but that has nothing to do with Ted Cruz who is not an anchor baby. Born in Canada to American mother is not close to the same thing in legal terms as born in the US to 2 illegal Mexicans.
I furthermore don't really agree that your hypothetical anchor baby democrat President who feels Mexican in his heart would be any worse than Hillary Clinton, Martin O. Malley, or any other Marxist piece of crap. They aren't "real Americans" AFAIK. Bill Clinton isn't, Jimmy Carter isn't. They are internationalists who I believe have no real love for this country. Michelle Obama admitted she doesn't. A leftist democrat is a leftist democrat. If you think President Anchor Baby is really quantifiably worse, fine. But again that has nothing to do with Ted Cruz, at all.
Supreme Court Justice Horace Gray in writing the majority opinion in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark (1898):
“Subject’ and ‘citizen’ are, in a degree, convertible terms as applied to natives; and though the term ‘citizen’ seems to be appropriate to republican freemen, yet we are, equally with the inhabitants of all other countries, ’subjects,’ for we are equally bound by allegiance and subjection to the government and law of the land.”
And Blackstone used the other in his lawbook of 1764 and said that natural born subjects included those born overseas to one parent.
And Blackstone, and English law in general, is directly cited as a source by the first Congress of the USA in 1790 when it wrote the first naturalization law.
If Cruz runs and wins the nomination are you really going to help Hillary or some other rat with genuine divided loyalties against our Constitution to win by not voting for him?
Well then according to Blackstone that would make Ted Cruz a natural born subject of Cuba.
Isn't that right???
My faith in your brilliant scholarship has been destroyed.....
:-)
No. His father renounced his Cuban citizenship before Cruz’s birth, so at most you can argue over US and Canadian.
You’re getting way ahead of yourself. He has not announced that he is running.
Don’t you like the job he is doing in the Senate???
I did have French in high school....about a 100 years ago, it seems. And "les naturels" rendered "the natural born citizens" is an interpretation and not a translation. There's a line of cosmetics and gardening also called "les naturels". I guess that's where they make facial stuff from aborted citizens???
But if he was a subject of Cuba then he cannot renounce it. That is the nature of being a subject versus a citizen. Once a subject always a subject as the War of 1812 was fought over.
I love what he's doing in the senate and would love for him to continue doing the same and more as President.
So, are you going to sit out if he wins the nomination?
Dang, such a small world......
Nope. He can renounce it. He did renounce it.
And the war of 1812 had to do with England not giving up the “colonies”. They thought they had a right to them and the people living in them. I don’t think those colonials had all individually renounced their citizenship in England. They figured it was a given since the colonies broken away and formed another country.
Nope, never taught it. However, as a minister, my bible Greek is still passable, and we’re absolutely fanatical about knowing the difference between an interpretation and a translation. :>)
Kinda like committed birthers who can't accept the fact in the face of overwhelming evidence, that Ted Cruz is a Natural Born Citizen, eh?
To contrast herself, Queen Hillary will wrap herself in the American flag, hold press conferences at her place of birth in red white and blue America, show all the places she used to visit as a toddler, pontificate about her father’s longtime American heritage, parade around her birth certificate bragging about her unequivocable natural born citizen status and coast into office with ease.
Are you prepared for that???
His father is touring the country with Jim DeMint. What are the possibilities that DeMint will run???
LOL!
I'm hoping you're not going to be fooled.
You won't be, will you?
The British were raiding American ships and taking sailors who had been former British subjects because once a subject of Great Britain always a subject of Great Britain. It’s the price of being a subject.
It's only the birthers (no pejorative intended) that will buy that crap, and only if people such as yourself let them.
Hey, honest question: is there a word that would describe you other than "birther" that I can use?
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