Posted on 03/18/2013 7:09:04 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
With the election of Pope Francis, there has been an almost "catholic" attempt to determine if he is liberal or conservative. CBS claims he is a "staunch conservative" based on the fact that, as correspondent Allen Pizzey put it, he "opposes abortion, supports celibacy, and called gay adoption discrimination against children," not to mention his opposition to faux marriage.
Tingle Central's Chris Matthews said that the new pontiff is economically "progressive," which, if we were to be informed by actual statistics, should mean he wouldn't give one red cent to anybody. But none of these analysts will peg the pope because they're using the provisional to understand a man defined by an institution based in the perpetual. And the reality is this: the terms "liberal," "conservative," and "moderate" are, in the truest sense, meaningless in Catholic circles. And understanding why holds a lesson for all of us.
Republican Ohio senator Rob Portman recently announced that he now supports faux marriage, and other self-proclaimed conservatives, such as CNN News' Margaret Hoover, have long done so. On the other hand, conservative Cliff Kincaid was recently scored by Michelle Malkin's site Twitchy for writing, "There is no such thing as a 'gay conservative,' unless the term 'conservative' has lost all meaning," prompting Renew America's Bryan Fischer to accuse the Malkinites of "trying to redefine conservatism." But Kincaid gets it close to right and Fischer is wrong.
Conservatism never had enduring meaning because it was never truly defined in the first place.
Understand that all places and times -- that is, all modern times -- have had their conservatives. Europe has its conservatives, but their general attitude toward faux marriage ranges from support to blithe indifference, and they don't trouble much over abortion.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
...He FREELY CHOOSES to not reverence Our Lord in the Eucharist upon the altar.
He also stumbled during Mass. He's seventy-six years old. Perhaps he has arthritis or a balance problem and was trying to avoid further mishap during the televised Mass. It's absurd to assume that Pope Francis (who prays 15 decades of the Rosary daily) would deliberately disrespect Our Lord.
There are elderly priests who have difficulty genuflecting without assistance, and people in attendance at the Tridentine Mass who receive Communion while standing (due to knee problems or other infirmities, NOT from any irreverent motive). What is disrespecful (and ignorant) is that "weird bow thing" comment.
What's with this rabid rush to "crucify him"? Give the man a chance, and PRAY FOR HIM.
Certainly many on this site. I don't know how many time I've been called a heretic by one merely because I'm an evangelical Christian.
Catholics are misled by western leadership and even misguided clergy.
When high-profile "Catholic" politicians can get away with the most evil stances imaginable and still be considered in "good standing" with the Church, it sends a powerful signal. Who's fault is that?
He is 76 years old. What if he can't genuflect do to problems in his knees? Shouldn't we give him the benefit of the doubt? It seems to me that Ann Barnhardt is quick to assume the worst about Francis. Did you notice his stumble when he went to greet Cardinal Sodano during his meeting with the College of Cardinals earlier this week? (See a photo in this article.)
The Jesuits were a group founded by Ignatius of Loyola, now a saint.
They take vows of poverty and are fiercely devoted to and successful at education.
Many, not the Society itself, many in it, fell into “Liberation Theology” which presents as a problem in that it encourages the clergy and congregations to work with the government. In this case, using government money to provide for the poor, where charity is best left up to the free will of the individual, this places the Catholic Church in government, but also, worse, communist territory.
They rejected, also, the teachings of Pope Paul I in his prophetic, really, required reading by anyone seeking reason, and an explanation of the mess we are in in regard to the sexes, Humanae Vitae.
Pope Francis, a Jesuit, rejected all of this getting involved with the gov’t business and was out of favor with the Jesuits, most likely not out of favor with the original Jesuit thinking.
He is very well received by most Catholics and every one I’ve spoken with in the past few days.
Well, I voted for him, and I still agree with everything you said in this post. A disaster.
2008 almost 55%
2012 53%
Non hispanic whites voted in 2012 around 60 percent GOP
likely their highest for GOP ever
up until Bush II they tended to vote democrat always except for Magnus
they have come around some but with latino Catholics forget about it..a lost cause at 70% or more rountinely
my group white Southern Baptists vote non Democrat around 90% in mid south and nearly universal in the Deep South
I would venture Charismatics and Texas/TN COC vote the same
Muslims prolly vote universal Democrat...lord the irony in that...medieval allied with progressive humanist?
anyhow
Peckerwood Catholics have made progress and I’m proud of them and I think this Pope even though Jesuit is no MaryKnoll style kook...and smells conservative to me anyhow as an outsider
a conservative pope always helps...we just need a church hierarchy to crack the whip on so many apostate adherents..and purge homosexuals
Catholics are so huge...this actually does matter...
what is the entity of that study? If It is confined to the US, it makes sense and reflects my comment.
Can’t imagine Je. Witnesses have grown that much throughout the world. But if it’s just growth, then. . .
you have only heard one priest your entire life speak out against abortion?
i see catholic churches here in middle tn with abortion crosses out front a lot...St Henrys on 70 does it a good bit
I attend Thompson Station Southern Baptist
Pastor Tom is relentless on culture war and to a crowd that is 99% supportive
clergy has a duty to speak up
Whatever happened at Vatican II, it was certainly concerned with the incomprehensive nature of the language of Mass, as evidenced by the statement you just made. I am an English professor in a Catholic school and I cannot read your post.
the Novus Ordo Mass in latin is wonderful, reverent and completely understandable.
When people vie for the Tridentine, I find them pushing for the invalidation of the Pope, which I find more dangerous than anything.
The Church hierarchy does not consider them to be in good standing.
“Certainly many on this site. I don’t know how many time I’ve been called a heretic by one merely because I’m an evangelical Christian.”
No sale. I’d need to see an example of that.
The Church’s standing is clear to anyone properly formed in the faith. We are all judged by what we know. I’ve been told I’m in trouble by non Catholics, but we are not in the business of telling people they’re going to hell for not converting to Catholicism. UH UH.
Catholics are misled by western leadership and even misguided clergy.
“When high-profile “Catholic” politicians can get away with the most evil stances imaginable and still be considered in “good standing” with the Church, it sends a powerful signal. Who’s fault is that?”
Uh, misguided clergy, like I stated.
Or well- meaning clergy with their own judgment/discernment in use. It sends a horrific message, and I regularly voice that idea in letters to them.
At Mass - One
It's easy to form that impression from certain nutty postings on the internet.
However, the vast majority of those I'm acquainted with in Real Life who attend the Tridentine Mass suppport and pray for our Holy Father.
Thank you. Being protestant I am totally in familiar with Catholic tradition. I haven’t paid much attention to the past Pope’s based on my faith being alienated from the Catholic faith. In other words I felt the Pope as being more a figure head and not speaking to my heart.
Somehow Pope Francis has changed that view for me. I feel his views on the “pomp an circumstance” and focus on the Spirit of Christ refreshing.
I have seen many of my protestant brothers express these same feelings. I know this is crazy talk, but could this Pope actually bring Church unity?
I get it form others, believe me.
I did say, “I find them. . .” leaving room for others.
Personally, I find Latin Mass so great in so many ways, and inclusive of Vatican II, as well
I don’t care, personally whether VII goes ahead or not, of course it will. It so quickly, often, becomes more angry than anything when people start raging about the Pope and it often comes from that subject.
“Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between a Roman Catholic and other Catholics? Is it like the difference between say a Anglican and a Baptist?”
No, there are eastern Catholic Churches (loyal to the Pope) that have their own hierarchies ad traditions (for example, for many of them their priests can be married). They are Churches in Ukraine, India, Iraq, Egypt, Greece, Lebanon, etc.; some are counterparts to Orthodox Churches that separated in 1054, while some have no Orthodox counterpart. They are Catholics, but not “Roman Catholics”.
Jesuits are a religious order in the western (Latin, or Roman Catholic) Church.
Very interesting.
My faith goes back, in tradition, to St Patrick, but I had to re-learn it as an adult, as most need to do, like learning English grammar rules in school.
I recently heard, I think form George Weigel, maybe Fr. Mitch Pacwa, something I guess I knew. Anyway, the Catholic Church is based on reason as well as faith.
So, the lifestyle and rules set out by the Church are good for anyone- Or: anyone’s life is enhanced in living out the rules of living that the Church professes.
Those, anyway, are two people I recommend reading, though for Mr. Weigel, get the dictionary out. His thinking is way above average but very readable because of his logic.
So the Roman Catholic line runs through the empirical Roman line and the others trace back through the Hebrew/Greek line or something close to that? Do the other Orthodox Churches have their own Popes or equivalants?
Sorry for the questions.
Yall need a whip cracker
Who was the little chubby cardinal many thought would be strongest conservative choice?
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