Enforcing bans on frying fats and Big Gulps and making sure restaraunts show how many calories are in their fare...quite a service.
Posted on 08/26/2012 6:32:13 AM PDT by Zakeet
It's official. The New York Police Department have admitted that all nine people wounded yesterday in the Empire State Building shootout were from bullets they fired at Jeffrey Johnson.
CNN's David Ariosto reports the NYPD said the two officers that confronted Johnson fired a total of 16 shots. "One officer shot nine while another one shot seven," they said. Police commissioner Ray Kelly explained the injured bystanders were hit by ricocheting bullets. The shots hit "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."
[Snip]
The next question the NYPD will have to answer is why the two officers needed to fire 16 bullets to take down one man who, as we can see in the video, was only a few feet away from them.
(Excerpt) Read more at theatlanticwire.com ...
What an arrogant and contemptuous prick. Here are just two examples of courageous armed citizens - senior citizens in this case - that put lie to your statement.
65-year-old Woman Thwarts Robbery on Jewellery Store in Garden Grove, California
Internet Cafe Customer Shoots 2 Robbers In Florida
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Most ongoing police firearms qualifcation takes place in the controlled setting of a shooting range, at best with pop up or rotating targets.
“Simunition” and other firearms shoot/don’t shoot simulators don’t include a crowded sidewalk at rush hour...and if they’re lucky, the had some of the tamer scenarios while in the academy.
The cops should be commended for no direct hit on bystanders and for a job VERY WELL DONE.
IMHO
FMCDH(BITS)
Just for fun, watch the video several times, and do it in stop motion digitally. Then compare (maybe even map it out with distances-if you have that info) what you see in the video with perhaps a Google street photo of 350 5th Avenue Manhattan and measure the distance between the large flower pots. Notice the suspect's movements, and officers firing and from where, and what aspect the target presented (not frontal)to the officer to the side-who is the one who killed him. It wasn't ten feet, and ranging down the sidewalk from the side also presented what had to be many other people who could be hit directly, but were not. There isn't simply nothing behind and around the suspect- there are lots of people and objects-it's not out in the woods. There are many other camera angles that have not been released to show this.
The officer who moves to the right in the frame appears to be firing one handed (basis for perhaps many of the stray rounds) and he is not ten feet away either. No one is making excuses-there are human behaviour factors in this that need to be examined and training issues addressed. BTW, the gunman put 5 .45 head shots in his victim (and witnesses saw him do it). Personally, gonna wait for the full report and ballistics, with video and audio and scene plot, to include distance and angle. Not jump on board with the liberal Atlantic Monthly agenda which conveniently ignores basic facts. These two officers were on rotation from South Bronx precinct- where this kind of thing happens a lot.
The two in the chamber were .225's. :o
Every solution has it's own set of compromises. Someone else mentioned in this thread that their father was a police officer and he used a 38 special with soft lead bullets that were less likely to ricochet or fragment. This type of projectile would most likely be designed for lower pressures and velocities than a typical 9mm hollow point. His example demonstrates that persons from earlier generations, many of whom had wartime or law enforcement gun fighting experiences... understood that many projectiles fired in a stressful situation would miss their mark and be a danger to bystanders regardless of the officers’ training, experience and judgment.
I don't know... 9mm hollow points very well could be the best choice for most officers in most situations. However it is also possible that for officers confronting armed violent criminals on busy sidewalks there might be other choices that would either be more effective or safer for the bystanders.
Some might say that the fact that none of the bystanders were killed indicates that the ammo was a good choice. At the least this situation is a PR nightmare. I personally have never heard of this many bystanders being wounded by police shooting at just one person, but it most likely is not the first time. My guess would be with the number of people hit, that some of those “fragments” ended up in areas where they couldn't be easily removed. Some of the injuries and tissue damaged will no doubt cause difficulties for the victims that will be long lasting if not permanent.
Two days ago I met a person who was shot in the head with a .22 pistol 18 years ago when he was a teen. The projectile caused permanent brain damage. He is still riding around in an electric wheel chair and has a difficult time communicating. Fragments from a 9mm hollow point could easily have done the same type of damage. It was a fragment from a .22 pistol that ricocheted off the presidential limo that nearly killed President Reagan.
Watching the video makes you realize just how quickly a situation like this can go bad. When the criminal who had just killed another man drew and pointed the barrel of that big .45 at the two officers they both immediately went into survival mode. They were pulling the trigger as fast as they could until the threat was on the ground. I am not sure that any amount of training would have prevented this reaction in the last few seconds of this confrontation... it would depend on the individuals involved. Better training might have caused them to approach the individual in a way that would have put themselves and the bystanders at less risk. There might also be different guns and ammo that would be better tools for officers who are most likely to find themselves in this type of predicament.
I hope that if any changes are made to training, protocol or equipment that the changes will actually make the police and bystanders safer. Unfortunately, it is just as likely that a knee jerk reaction will make the police less able to perform their duties in a safe and effective manner and the public will actually be put at greater risk.
Enforcing bans on frying fats and Big Gulps and making sure restaraunts show how many calories are in their fare...quite a service.
One question. If this happened in Baghdad, what type of charges would be filed for the soldiers that fired?
From the WSJ...
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly confirmed on Saturday that all nine bystanders were hit by police officers’ bullets. Six of the nine were hit by bullet fragments, while the other three were hit directly by bullets.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444812704577611553836585324.html
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What are you basing your claim on?
I think the union and the looting of the tax payers, takes care of that.
And grateful citizens
who don’t hate cops and who refuse to hate New Yorkers.
Hate? What are you doing on a conservative site if you have such a strange response to a political observation about corrupt, taxpayer looting, public worker unions?
You also don’t seem much interested in so many people being gunned down and injured by a couple of poorly performing, union cops.
I HAVE watched the video repeatedly. Giving the cop "ten feet" is being generous!
You take that "keyboard commando" crap and stuff it straight up your a##, toady. Posters like you are doing nothing BUT "making excuses."
If you need someone to write a report to validate what can be plainly seen, no matter how many GD camera angles come out later, where the hell do you get off telling others they have to be told what to think, too?
As the saying goes, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining...at least if you want the discussion to stay civil.
Precisely.
Last time I saw this much "cop sucking" on FReeRepublic, it was when the cop suckers were trying to defend Johann Meserve when he shot a face-down, restrained, kid in the back, and tried to claim he thought he was firing his taser.
(about as credible as coming home to find your spouse boning someone else, and claiming they thought it was you)
“These officers, normally assigned to the 42nd Precinct in the South Bronx, have seen more and dealt with more than the average American would see if they lived 10 lifetimes.”
Yet, that was the best they could do. Injure a bunch of innocents. So much for the “FINEST”, or does FINEST mean,
F***ing Incompetent New York’s Eternally Stupid Tyrants.
“NYC IS THE SAFEST LARGE CITY IN THE UNITED STATES......BY FAR!”
BS. New York is crime central. All “fly over country” cities are far better.
“That’s why both of these officers, who had significant time on the job, had never been in a gun battle”
What happened to your BS comment that “These officers, normally assigned to the 42nd Precinct in the South Bronx, have seen more and dealt with more than the average American would see if they lived 10 lifetimes”?
Typically New Yorker, talking out both sides of your crooked mouth.
Ijut
Oh but they HAVE! ...the latest fashion, broadway shows, the FAAAAbulous museums, but they have a gritty side too. They have RATS, really really big rats! Rats so big they could scare a shi-tzu!
And did I mention the summer heat? Why, it gets so hot they even have to run the air conditioners AT NIGHT!
You gotta be a special kind of tough to live in that kind of environment.
I find my .45 1911 has less recoil than the browning 9mm high power I used in the army. The 9mm has a higher velocity, whereas the .45 is subsonic, I find the 9mm has a sharper recoil, and the .45 comes back onto target quicker.
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