Posted on 07/10/2012 12:12:26 PM PDT by Sleeping Freeper
A Phoenix man who violated city zoning laws by hosting a Bible study in the privacy of his home has started serving a 60-day jail sentence for his crimes.
Michael Salman was found guilty in the City of Phoenix Court of 67 code violations. He was sentenced to 60 days in jail along with three years of probation and a $12,180 fine. A spokesperson for the city attorney confirmed that Salman reported to a county jail Monday afternoon.
Members of Salman’s Bible study group posted video of their teacher as he self-reported to the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office. It was an emotional scene.
“We believe that people should not be prohibiting other people from having Bible studies in their homes,” Salman said outside the jail. “We believe what they are doing is wrong. It’s private property. It’s our home.”
Salman embraced some of his Bible study members before offering final remarks.
“At the very end, after all is said and done, God will ultimately have glory in this,” he said. “We do this for the glory of the Lord.”
Someone off camera could be heard remarking, “I love you, pastor.”
Salman’s incarceration is the result of a long-running feud between the ordained pastor and the city of Phoenix over weekly Bible studies that Salman and his wife hosted in their home. City officials determined that the weekly gatherings constituted a church – and therefore violated a number of code regulations.
(Excerpt) Read more at radio.foxnews.com ...
Thanks for the ping to Ron C.’s comments Carry_Okie. Those comments were located here:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/2904943/posts?page=15#15
Later on Ron appeared to back off a bit on his description of the building. That is verifiable here:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/2904943/posts?page=19#19
In my original post, I tried to voice some reason regarding this issue. Not all city ordinances need to be viewed as focused on Religion. I’ve seen issues like this discussed before, when folks failed to ask normal questions about impact on neighbors and other peripheral issues, such as local ordinances.
Here, and thanks to some folks who provided links, it seems like the father and family in focus, did try to comply with the city’s ordinances. And IMO, those ordinances were extremely iffy on the surface.
For instance, how can it be illegal to invite non-family members into your home without a certificate to validate it’s use as a small meeting place? The absurdity of that is unmistakable.
For instance, no wedding receptions, graduation receptions, bar mitzvahs, garden parties, retirement celebrations, card parties, groups who want to get together and play games, Tupperware parties, Mary K Cosmetics, Amway and other things could do so without a city permit. And that means even once!
None of this would be permissible on an occasional basis as stated by the reading of the code the city is trying to enforce against this man. And as the video provided up thread via a link, many of his neighbors are doing these very things.
Initially this homeowner was trying to hold a small prayer study group in his living room. I’ve been around for 61 years, and I have never heard of someone being prevented from having a very small group attend meetings in their home.
Trying to comply with what I think was an absurd interpretation, the homeowner did build a use permit building. And then the city, which had to approve of the project every step of the way, knowing damn well what this guy was trying to achieve, none the less came in later and claimed he still wasn’t in accordance with city codes.
How did he get sign off at each step of construction, if he wasn’t meeting city codes?
If there was a problem with locating this building there for the intended purpose, the city should have denied his application at the onset of the project. To complain now after he has paid to have the building erected, complying with city codes at each step of construction, seems extremely abusive.
I do believe cities do have to have codes to protect one citizens rights from another person’s abuses. I also believe in it, when it comes to safety. Here I can’t see how the city has a leg to stand on, if it allowed the building to go through the permit process, and now isn’t happy with what exists on that property.
Without a lot of study, it’s hard to know if we actually know all the timelines, and permitting processes involved here. It does seem like overkill to send upwards of twenty people into this man’s home with a warrant in order to resolve this issue.
Unless this guy built without a permit, it looks to me like the city is the culprit here.
If he did build without a permit, it is reasoned for the city to take him to task, but it should be done in a business like manner, not a criminal like manner with what appears to be very close to an assault team.
My original post here:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/2904943/posts?page=17#17
Then why are you blaming him?!
D-1, your reasoning and logic is flawless and impeccable, as always, brother.
Stories like this always have a knee-jerk reaction built into them. But there’s always more to it.
Sounds like, from reading the whole article, that this home bible study group had grown too big for the home. They were meeting in a separate 2,000 sq. ft. building behind the house and probably need to move.
Betcha neighbors were annoyed not with the religious nature of the meetings but rather with the associated traffic, parking, and noise problems.
Also something about lighting.
Probably more of a zoning and disturbing the peace issue than one of religious freedom.
Having lived in Arizona...I can say this. If a guy had an occasional five or six folks over and chatted over just about anything (to include the Bible), then no neighbor would care. The minute you build onto your property, and it starts to look like a large-scale building...that has nothing to do with a garage or hobby...and looks like something beyond a house...folks start to ask questions.
I’m guessing that cars in front of the neighbors irked folks, and that this guy really didn’t see where this was going to lead to.
The guy outright lied on the permit saying he was building a "game room". Read the link I posted.
Walmart provides parking for all their customers, too, but I don’t want to live next door.
Bible thumper here, but I’m solidly on the neighbors’ side in this one.
Romans 13 — “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.”
The size of it is far less important than the issue here. And that is, whether or not a man has the right to hold Bible studies on his property or not - even though there is no chance of that activity harming his neighbors in any way whatsoever.
It is a sad day in America when atheists can dictate absolute restrictions on religious activities in such a ham-fisted way.
That this would be happening in a state that WAS once very conservative, is of little surprise, since most of the growth that came to Phoenix was from DEMOCRATS moving away from the fiscal mess THEY created with their votes in CA!
Take a look at the property I posted just prior. It is instructive in that the new building has no windows to the South to allow sound to escape the building - and apparently the same to the North from prior pictures.
This needs to be litigated, laws changed, and freedom restored.
Okay, that may be true. I’m not trying to imply anything other than I’m taking your word for it.
Let me run this by you though.
1. Homeowner gets city complaint about prayer meetings in home
2. Homeowner requests permit to build on property in response
3. Homeowner states new structure is only a game room
4. City buys off on it
My question is this. Why would the city buy off on the game room plan in the first place? They know he’s under pressure to conform to city codes regarding meetings? The same city department that is explaining to him what his code violations are, simply misses the connection between existing complaints and the inadequate plans for a new structure?
This leaves me scratching my head.
At best these local ordinance tyrants should focus on safety and proper building standards and let people decide how to use their property. I'll lie to any totalitarian bastard who oversteps their authority as the city of Phoenix has. A 45x45 building shouldn't be a problem in most neighborhoods, that's just a medium sized garage. I get that his neighbors don't like him, but haven't read anything that he has done to harm them. What don't people understand about liberty? Too many on Free Republic confuse the law with true morality and liberty, when in reality the gross balance of the law is stacked against individual freedom.
But, that's isn't the thrust of Romans 14 - "For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."
In former times in this nation, all elected officials were closely scrutinized as to their Christian belief. Non-Christians were NOT elected. These days we elect closet Muslims to the presidency - and other's that are not a 'Minister of God.'
If the elected are not Christian, then we owe no allegiance to those that are not Ministers of God. We work to oppose and DEpose them.
There’s are some grounds for arguing the effects of White Flight, along the lines you have. Your area seems more Leftist. I would still submit that most of the folks who did flee Southern California, were home owner worker bees rather than folks benefiting from state largess. We’ve also seen a lot of businesses relocated outside the state. Non-union workers are more likely to be at least independents rather than avowed Leftists.
What saddens me, is the populace that once could support a man like Reagan, is now unable to find the brain cells needed to repel an idiot like Jerry Brown.
If you look at the numbers of Californians who have left, you’ll note that it pretty much mirrors the amount we are now losing in-state elections by.
California now has somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 million residents. If it had even 5 million middle class whites in the traditional areas they used to live in, you’d see California right itself in five to ten years.
Ridiculous.
Paul was writing to Christians in ROME, ruled by pagans. He said to respect those authorities.
Of course, when given a choice between our faith and manmade law, we must choose obedience to God. But that’s not the case here. These people are intentionally being rebellious and annoying, neither of which is Christ-like.
There are many things that are lawful in this land that are immoral and in opposition to Christianity, but nobody and no legal authority is forcing you to do them (although Obamacare is pushing that issues on Catholics). Abortion may be legal, but it’s not mandatory, and nobody is forcing you to abort a baby.
I’m not blaming him. Pointing out that your reply to Ozzymandus was inaccurate, does not mean that I’m blaming him. I’m not agreeing with Ozzy. I’m just pointing out that it occurring in a Phoenix municipal court instead of a Maricopa County court has absolutely no bearing in regards to the responsibility of the sheriff to jail the convicted.
Ah... so, you too are part of the problem. You don't like those who revere and study the bible - and call them 'Bible thumpers.'
Ok, got it. Now I know where you stand.
Disregard my last, please, I thought I was talking to someone else.
Sorry!
Darn, I was a minute late. See my #57.
Would that this could happen soon! I've seen so many good folks leave the state due to lack of good jobs, as hundreds of thousands of small manufacturing businesses fled the state.
I remember so well that many of the same problem existed when Reagan became Governor here, and we experienced a huge return of manufacturing and other small business that hired tens of thousands. I remember too, under Reagan, we had a massive expansion of home building, and homes were CHEAP (as compared to current prices.)
This sounds like a case for Jay Sekulow.
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