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To: MamaTexan; Sherman Logan; fortheDeclaration; rockrr
BJK from post #100: 9. "Prior to that Declaration of War, [May 6, 1861] no Confederate soldier had been killed by any Union force."

Mama Texan: "9) Again, unsourced opinion."

I'll take this one first, since it's a simpler matter.

A number of people on both sides suffered injury or death before the first real battle between opposing military forces, a battle in which the first Confederate soldier was killed directly by a Union force.

It was the Battle of Big Bethel, also called the Battle of Bethel Church or Great Bethel, on June 10, 1861, more than a month after the Confederacy declared war on the United States.

The Confederate soldier killed at Big Bethel was Pvt Henry Wyatt of Co A 11st North Carolina.

Here is a more detailed account of the events.

Yes, back on June 1, 1861, at the Battle of Fairfax Court House,

But actual circumstances of Captain Marr's death are unknown, and include the possibility of fratricide:

Here's the bottom line: there are no reports of any Southern soldiers being killed directly by a Union force before the Confederacy's Declaration of War on May 6, 1861.

So, unlike for example, in the American Revolution of 1776, there was no actual war going on before the Confederacy started it, especially at Fort Sumter, then formally declared war, on May 6, 1861.

And by the way, I should say: this was absolutely no accident, since President Lincoln had announced in his Inagural Address on March 16, 1861, that:

"In your hands, my dissatisfied fellow-countrymen, and not in mine, Is the momentous issue of civil war.

The government will not assail you.
You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors.
You have no oath registered in heaven to destroy the government, while I shall have the most solemn one to "preserve, protect, and defend" it.
I am loth to close.
We are not enemies, but friends.
We must not be enemies.
Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.

The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battle-field and patriot grave to every living heart and hearth-stone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."

I'll answer your other items in sequence, when I can get back to it.

110 posted on 04/20/2012 11:31:38 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK
I'll take this one first, since it's a simpler matter.

Fair enough. No Confederate soldier had been killed by any Union force prior to the Declaration of War.

Since the subject was the constitutionality of secession and not battle casualties, I really don't see what it has to do with the subject.

-------

I'll answer your other items in sequence, when I can get back to it.

I look forward to you response.

113 posted on 04/20/2012 12:01:05 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: BroJoeK; MamaTexan

Actually, the civil war was proceeding in and around Indian Territory as early as March, 1861. Confederate Colonel Stand Watie and his Cherokee troops had taken Fort Smith, held raids into Missouri, along with some Texans in the early spring.

A little here:

http://www.civilwaralbum.com/washita/OR.htm

I’m looking for some dates on this, just going from notes in a book about the Civil War in Indian Territory.

“Jesus Wept” An American Story

http://jesusweptanamericanstory.blogspot.com/

Watie was also the last to cease hostilities, June, 1865, months after Lee surrendered. Watie did not surrender, but agreed to cease hostilities. My grgrgrandfather wrote the agreement with the Union.


115 posted on 04/20/2012 12:05:35 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: BroJoeK
Excellent post!

But the simple fact is that there is no right to secession and the Confederates fired on a Federal fort.

It is an act of rebellion plain and simple.

124 posted on 04/20/2012 1:46:54 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!-Sam Adams)
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