Hard to find truth in Zimmerman’s call to police

[Java4Jay]

I’m having great difficulty locating the original full version of Zimmerman’s call to police, one that is not enhanced to make wind noise sound like a racial slur.

[Alice in Wonderland]

Please get your cast of characters straight ...

Tracy Martin is Trayvon’s father. He was recounting the sequence of events as told to him by the police.

Dee-Dee is the girl on the phone. I don't believe the police have ever interviewed her.

[Mr Rogers]

Domestic violence? Do you know how many men have been falsely charged with that by their ex-wives? In fact, my wife recently told a woman that if she went ahead and accused her ex, my wife would testify - for the ex-husband. Why? Because the ex-wife told her she was going to make the accusation to “teach him a lesson”...

“resisting an officer without violence”

That is, by definition, not violent.

“resisting an officer with violence”

You mean, putting your hand on an officer’s arm. If he had punched the officer, or wrestled with the officer, Zimmerman WOULD have been charged.

And THAT is your history of violence.

Now, who was committing the violence that night? We know the cops reported on Zimmerman’s injuries, consistent with Zimmerman’s story. And we know the witnesses support Zimmerman’s story. And Zimmerman’s story is self-defense.

Further, within hours, the autopsy would show if the gun was fired at point-blank range. Maybe THAT is why Zimmerman wasn’t charged...

[PhatHead]

TM's own father originally said it wasn't him, and then changed his story later on.

I'm not overly concerned with what his father says, to be honest. I lost a son myself three years ago, and I would give the parents a lot of leeway considering the emotional strain they are under. I don't grant the same leeway to the people trying to exploit their grief.

As for the voice recognition part, I'm inclined to think the father's first reaction is the more credible, for the simple reason that I believe it was given in a less politically charged context.

Having said all that, I also think that the parents' statements, in general, could not possibly be less relevant, since neither was a witness to anything, and I don't think there is any point in debating them one way or the other. They are speculating, just like the rest of us.

[kanawa]

The folks at Contrail Science did a Yeoman’s job of putting things into perspective.

http://contrailscience.com/a-problem-of-perspective-in-the-oc-new-years-eve-contrail/

[MtBaldy]

In fact I’ll go further and bet there are already lawyers out there building a case to present to Zimmerman. I know if I was a young lawyer looking for clients I would be.

[21twelve]

All interesting conjecture/observations.

Perhaps when Z made the statement (in his truck), TM was still seen running down the walkway heading towards the rear entrance. And then Z either “lost him” when TM turned, or perhaps faded away into the dark.

And Z may have assumed that TM did not live in the neighborhood (not seeing him around as TM was new), and figured he would just try to leave the complex as quick as possible - through that rear entrance.

From some of the witnesses it sounds like there was a verbal argument ahead of time. One person said something like “I heard voices, and could tell it wasn’t the normal conversation of people walking their dogs.”

So I’m not sure TM “Jumped” Zimmerman from behind - but probably started off with words that got out of control. (Although perhaps caught him off guard hiding behind a bush or something).

“Hey - what are you doing here?”

“Nothing man, I’m walking home”?

“Then how come you ran?”

“What are you - Mr. Cop or something?”

“Hey, listen punk - I’m the neighborhood watch Captain...”

“Oh - big shot watch captain, well how about you watch me kick your ass...”

Obviously all conjecture, but I could see each of their testosterone levels rising. Although from the phone call, Z doesn’t seem all that confident or cocky. Based on TM’s photos and posts, I can see where he might think it cool to go “gansta” on some guy.

[Cboldt]

-- There is no evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin. The account of Martin's own girlfriend is that Martin initiated the interaction. --

Serino indicates a theory including two face to face confrontations, minutes apart. One at Zimmerman's car (I wonder if that's the one with no words, where Martin gets close, stares, puts his hands in his waistband, then turns and runs), the other at the location where the fight started.

[PhatHead]

Well, that’s as reasonable a theory as any, and it fits the known facts and timeline. It is similar to things I’ve suggested among the many posts I’ve made here during my (somewhat unhealthy) obsession with this case for the last couple of weeks. As I’ve said before, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that both Martin and Zimmerman started out acting reasonably, but things got out of control. In your scenario, I can easily put myself in either one’s shoes (up to a point.) And none of that necessarily means Zimmerman committed a crime.

Zimmerman’s account (via his father) is that the conversation went like this:

M: You got a problem?
Z: No, I don’t have a problem.
M: Well, now you do! *punch*

That may fit the witness account of raised voices, too, and again, the known evidence does not contradict Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.

Remember, we haven’t actually heard Zimmerman’s account - just versions of various parts of it recounted by others. All we know for sure is that he claimed self-defense and the police concluded that none of the evidence contradicted his claim.

[OneLoyalAmerican]

Greetings Rooivalk:

Appreciate your skepticism, for FreeRepublic often suffers from chronic group think. Feel sad Trayvon's parents had to bury their child, and equally sad Mr. Zimmerman had to make a deadly force decision.

I'm mostly angered by media attention whores whipping up angry mobs reminiscent of a Klan lynch mob atmosphere. Worse are the race baiting politicians pimping the tragedy for fun and profit.

You've made a good point here: The police video tape shows no dressings on the back of Zimmerman's head

Wound appears as surface abrasion (road rash) but the lack of dressing atop the wound surprised me a bit. No sutures without a transport is logical. Head wound without a dressing an ice pack, later swelling is likely.

Freeper JoeProBono contributed this photo image. Known as a joker, I wouldn't rule a photoshop image. Asked for a confirmation of authenticity, but I haven't heard back.

Cheers,
OLA

[Oztrich Boy]

Fantasy, what fantasy, he was out on his Neighborhood Watch Patrol when he was brutally attacked.

If you want to call Zimmerman's brother a liar, I will not dispute it.

[chris37]

They were never caught as far as I know.

[trappedincanuckistan]

That picture has been shown everywhere from Breitbart to MSNBC. Furthermore, Zimmerman’s neighbour attests that the day after the incident Zimmerman’s head was bandaged.

[kanawa]

The link you give to Martin's father goes nowhere.
You have the same problem with the link in post 230
Go here...HTML Sandbox 2012 and scroll down to How to create a link:

The only one privy to the conversation was Martin's girl friend
and her report doesn't fit with what you report Martin's father has said...

The 16-year-old girl, who was not identified, said in a phone call recorded by ABC News this morning that as Trayvon was walking he told her "some man was watching him" so he pulled his hoodie over his head.

She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"

Then a man, presumably Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?" The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.

[Cboldt]

I'd like to know how investigator Serino reached the conclusion that Martin spoke with Zimmerman twice, minutes apart. First contact at the car, then Z gets out minutes later to find TM.

If there had been a first contact that involved conversation, it doesn't appear on the recording of Z with dispatch. I wonder if Serino is planting a BS story with the family - stirring the pot if you will. Or did Z give a different version?

A police detective told the father of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin that his son initiated two confrontations with the neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot him. ...

Trayvon Martin walked up to Zimmerman's vehicle and asked why he was following him. Zimmerman denied following the youth and rolled up the car window. Minutes after Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle.

To square this away with the recorded call, this encounter would have happened (minutes) before Z called dispatch.

The length of time on the recorded call has TM in sight for a good 30 seconds, staring, getting closer, hands in waistband, staring some more, then run. Is all this a pure fabrication by Z?

[Cboldt]

-- The only one privy to the conversation was Martin's girl friend ... --

Crump, the family lawyer, has DeeDee in conversation with Trayvon for all or most of his trip to the store and back. I wonder if HER story includes to "confrontations", minutes apart, where TM was close enough to Z to carry on a dialog; and did carry on a dialog.

[OneLoyalAmerican]

Greetings trappedincanuckistan:

Thanks for the confirmation.

Cheers,
OLA

[PhatHead]

Serino indicates a theory including two face to face confrontations, minutes apart. One at Zimmerman's car (I wonder if that's the one with no words, where Martin gets close, stares, puts his hands in his waistband, then turns and runs),

It's more than a theory, I'd say. This is on the recording of Zimmerman's call to police, and there's no reason to think Zimmerman was fabricating this account - although I'm not sure I'd call it a "confrontation": "Something’s wrong with him. Ayup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is."

the other at the location where the fight started.

Well, we know this happened. We just don't know how it happened. But there is no known evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claims. Has the Serino affidavit been published anyplace? From the reports I've seen, it's not clear to me that there is anything unusual about it.

[Cboldt]

I said: I wonder if Serino is planting a BS story with the family - stirring the pot if you will.

To explain why I think of his remarks as "stirring the pot," in his meeting with the 13 yo witness's mother, he suggests that Z was driven by profiling - that he was seeking evidence of that, or otherwise catching Z in a lie.

[Serino] told me that he and the other officer with him felt that it was not self-defense and that they needed to prove it wasn't self-defense. And he said that I needed to read between the line because there was some stereotyping going on.... I took it to mean that he felt that George Zimmerman committed this crime based on whether it's stereotyping or racial profiling or whatever you want to call it. But those were his words. Stereotyping.

Need to "read between the lines." Otherwise known as pull out of thin air.

[trappedincanuckistan]

No problem. Things move fast. If you’re not on here everyday (as I suspect many aren’t) it’s hard to keep up. I try to keep fairly up to date, but there are many here like PhatHead and cboldt that are far more familiar with the details than I am.

[PhatHead]

Well, I posted earlier that I really am not concerned about the father’s account of a policeman’s account of somebody else’s account. I replied to you in another post about the “two encounters.”