(Vanity) German Shepherd Needs Good Home Quickly (Help a FReeper out -Mod)

Self | 3/30/12 | Pops88

[pops88]

I just sent the following to someone involved with animal rescue, and wanted to share with Freepers. It's been a very hard day here :

I found out last night my family has to move overseas in the next 5 days because of my husband's job. I have a highly intelligent, well trained, well behaved, 4 year old German Shepherd. If I can't find a foster or permanent home, he will have to be euthanized. I've worked with him extensively. He's obedient and knows many commands, but he's not been able to be socialized to other people or animals. From the time he was a puppy he was fearful of other people and I was unable change that behavior. As a family pet, he has been wonderful. He was neutered as soon as possible to avoid problems with dominance issues. Some of the commands he knows: sit, stay, lie down, leave it, drop it, take, put (here,) give, find (person/specific toy), back up,wait, shake,kiss, crate, etc.

He is pool safe. He does not enter bedrooms or bathrooms unless on command. He does not get on furniture or eat food that has not been given to him. He will not take food from counters, coffee tables or the garbage. He is housebroken. If his water is empty he will nudge his dish and sit and wait. If a toy is taken away and put up he will not try to take it back. He doesn't beg at the table. When I'm cooking he goes and lies down. He is in good health and not over weight.

He can be a big ham with doe eyes or a head plant on a knee when he wants attention. He's so smart and communicative that I've referred to him as our toddler. He was taught to heel as a puppy, but because of his fear and aggression with strangers and other animals he has not been walked on a leash for several years. He's had to be confined to our home and backyard. My husband is a pilot and was unemployed several times in the last few years because of the economy. It's been a real struggle for us. We didn't have the money to take him to a professional trainer to deal with his socialization issues, and he was too big for me to handle on walks. He would be an absolutely wonderful dog for someone willing to work with him.

I've kept a file on all his vet records and papers (purebred from East German blood lines.) We absolutely hate the thought of having to take him to the Humane Society and be put down when he's such a wonderful dog otherwise, but again, we have to move overseas on extremely short notice and we're all pretty much in shock. I live in Las Vegas and expect to be driving to Los Angeles on Tuesday.

[HairOfTheDog]

You know I agree, and when I said it, I’d only read between the lines on how bad the dog was.

After reading more details in post 105 and beyond, I don’t know how someone would even consider rehoming this dog. How is a new owner even supposed to take possession of a dog that you couldn’t unmuzzle around your daughter after 4 days of trying?

And if the vet won’t do it (which I can’t believe, if he’s been told of this kind of aggression) find one who will.

I love dogs, but this one is broken. And unless there’s a very good pro willing to take him on, he’s just one mistake, yours or someone else’s, away from being a tragedy.

[pops88]

A professional could rehabilitate my dog. My vet underestimated how much sedation my dog needed. He may well have thought I was shopping for drugs for myself. I have not had the money to have a professional work with my dog as I pointed out earlier as my husband unexpectedly lost his job multiple times in the last 3 years and he is extremely blessed to have gotten the one he has. Since you feel so strongly, and I haven’t found someone who is willing to euthanize my dog, then please feel free to borrow my gun and do it yourself. I’m frankly not willing to do that and it may very well be against the law. Perhaps since I live in Las Vegas and summer is coming up I should just leave him in the car and say, “oops.” That’s probably better than burglarizing the vet for the right drugs. Geeze!

[HairOfTheDog]

I was trying, earlier, to put your mind at ease in making a difficult decision under difficult circumstances. I wanted you to know you weren’t wrong for considering it. I was trying to help you.

Now I am beginning to think your refusal to accept that he is beyond “he’s a good boy otherwise...” is simply irresponsible. You seem to have built a happy life around a dog who would kill your daughter if you weren’t hyper vigilant. Good for you, but your dog just isn’t worth the risk to the innocents who will be hurt if you or anyone else makes a mistake. Now, I wish I could help them.

Don’t tell me a vet won’t do it. I quite simply do not believe you.

[the OlLine Rebel]

Well, I’ve gotten nothing but a simple rhetorical question from the Euro-GS forum nuts.

My neighbor sent out a message but nothing from that yet.

Good luck.

[pops88]

“I was trying, earlier, to put your mind at ease in making a difficult decision under difficult circumstances. I wanted you to know you weren’t wrong for considering it. I was trying to help you.”

Well, then maybe you should have phased it as such, rather coming off as a punch in the nose.

“You seem to have built a happy life around a dog who would kill your daughter if you weren’t hyper vigilant.”

My daughter was only visiting for week, and it’s Las Vegas. She was only at home a few hours a day. After his initial reaction, he calmed down. Neither my daughter or I wanted to waste the time we had to visit, when I haven’t seen her for 6 years, training the dog. In my absence, I don’t believe he’ll bite the hand that feeds him. I believe a responsible person could work with him.

“Don’t tell me a vet won’t do it. I quite simply do not believe you.”

Call them and ask. After an extension conversation, they were the ones that convinced me not to immediately take the nuclear option:

Courtyard Animal Clinic
250 North Decatur Boulevard Las Vegas, NV 89130
(702) 868-4115

[pops88]

“Don’t tell me a vet won’t do it. I quite simply do not believe you.”

Clever trying to distract me from my grief by trying to turn it to anger over calling me a liar. Again, cleaver and kudos.

[pops88]

Opps, misspelled “clever.” Must have been a Freudian slip. Not surprised.

[Admin Moderator]

If you are not here to help, keep off the thread, and stop with your completely unhelpful opinions.

Keep it up and I'll give you a week off posting on FR.

Admin mod

[pops88]

I’m going to wax Christian for a minute as I bump this thread. If I had a child with a behavorial problem, would that necessarily make me a bad parent or prove that my parenting skills were bad? If I had an otherwise healthy fetus should I choose to abort it because of a defect? I took care of a newborn that was in NICU because of a botched abortion. The hospital ethics committee browbeat the parents into abortion because the child would be so horribly handicapped and would have no quality of life. Abortion was the easy out. The infant needed surgery for a minor problem and his horrible outcome was having a limp. I had to care for him for prematurity and saline solution burns. Should I euthanize my close family member because they’re bipolar? I realize my dog isn’t human, but that makes him all the more vulnerable to not having his life valued. I realize human life is exponentially more valuable than any animal’s life. I guess I have to ask — do we live in a culture that values life at all? Do we abandon our imperfect baby at the hospital if we didn’t get the chance to abort it, dump our senile grandma at the nursing home, or do we try to make the best out of a challenging situation God has presented us to try our faith and character?

Here are my dog’s positive traits and commands he knows —

puppy night-night (the command signaling no more interaction for the day)
sit
stay
down
wait (hang around the general area while I’m gone)
kiss
shake
potty
roll over (quit training that because with a GSD’s joints it looked very painful)
jump
take
put (here)
drop it
give (to a person)
find (person/toy)
swim
go away
“Can’t reach it” (toy dropped too far away)
back up
eat (when he hasn’t touched his food and isn’t sure if his ‘pack’ is eating, or permission to eat when it isn’t)
outside/inside
crate
bathroom
bedroom
up (the rare permission to get on the couch)
no bite (getting too mouthy)

How many people’s dog’s know and obey that many commands? When I get up in the morning, I get my tea, sit down, drink it, and my dog doesn’t interact with me until I signal him that I am ready. When I come home from being out, he knows he gets no attention till my purse or packages get put down. He skirts/rebels against that by nudging my hand with his nose because it’s so hard to contain himself. I pretend to let him get away with it because I overwhelmingly want to glomp him, too. This week we had nice weather. I decided to throw open the living room patio door so I’d feel like I was outside. My dog kept going to the other door requesting to go outside. He’d go to the patio door, but wouldn’t go out. That’s not the door he’s been allowed to go out of, so he wouldn’t go. It’s been several days, and he still looks to me for the ‘ok’ to go out that door. My dog knows that he cannot go into bedrooms or bathrooms except under command. I’m a softie so I let him lay with his feet in. We have an understanding- feet say “I want in, please,” and my allowance says, “I know you do, but, no, and I love you so you can have a taste and feel a little bit included.”

For a dog that knows this many commands (I’m probably forgetting some), is so well behaved and obedient, should the first option be death because he’s afraid of strangers, or should I try to work with the dog’s psychiatric issues? I’m not going to re-home him with a bunch of young kids he’s vying for pack order with. I’m looking for a home with a strong Alpha male and /or female that, like me, can control my dog on a word, look or hand signal.

[pops88]

One command I just realized I missed-

Finger snap= at my side.

I can also leave food out below nose level all night (those bad, late night snacks) and my dog won’t touch them. He’s occasionally allowed to sniff in the general direction of the counter, garbage, etc. before he gets the look or an outright “no” for over sniffing. If only children were so well behaved...!

[Gene Eric]

I hope this works out. Your GSD sounds like a loyal boy.

It’s not uncommon for pubs that experienced trauma to show aggressive towards strangers and other animals.

[pops88]

Thanks. He’s the most obedient, well trained dog I’ve ever had, short of his psychiatric issues. Not many dogs are as obedient and well trained. It would be tragic to have to euthanize him when I know there are people who are competent, experienced and capable of working with him. For most of his commands, I don’t even have to say the command, I just have to give him a look in context and he understands.

[pops88]

“Your GSD sounds like a loyal boy.”

When I was first introducing him to the pool and trying to teach him to be pool safe, he tried to rescue me and drag me to the stairs. It was pretty impressive, but a bit painful since German Shepherds aren’t soft mouthed, water dogs. If I’d really been drowning, I’d have lived, but might have lost hand. I’ve never had a dog do something like that, that most of us only see portrayed by Hollywood. I had a “wow” moment that dogs will actually, in real life, do something like that without hundreds if hours of training.

And on a side note, I’m reminded, back in the days of vcr’s, my young kids would make me rent Homeward Bound just so they could see mom cry on cue then laugh hysterically. Children can be so creul, and mine actually did that reapetedly.

[LSAggie]

I’ve been lurking through this entire thread because I have nothing constructive to add, but just a thought, have you had bloodtests run on your dog to see if there is a chemical imbalence that could be corrected? Specifically, I’m thinking of low thyroid.

Although your dog is fairly young, we have a 2 year old setter rescue with borderline low thyroid that we will have to watch, and two of our rescues needed thyroid supplements when we adopted them at ages 4 and 5.

I’m also wondering if it could be a food allergy, or a reaction to some type of toxin in the environment that you are not even aware of.

I wish you the best during this trying time.

[PieterCasparzen]

IMHO, it does not sound like you are the leader in the eyes of your dog - have you ever considered the difficulty lies more with you than your dog ?

Sounds like a classic case of you are the friend of the dog. He very intelligently does what you tell him for numerous things. But when it comes to defending you, i.e., any other living thing, he right away “takes over” and “assumes command”. He takes the iniative to go into attack mode, and at that point he ignores your verbal commands. Commands of the “alpha” are never ignored. The dog will obey off leash with verbal commands only if in the dog’s eyes the commands are from the leader.

If you were the leader in the eyes of the dog, i.e., alpha, or pack leader, YOU would be calmly and assertively calling all the shots when it comes to meeting other people or animals. A simple, verbal “hey, knock it off, this person’s ok”, would put him into “normal” mode, looking to you for instructions and getting familiar (smelling) his new friend.

Dogs (any animal for that matter) sense stress and uncertainty as well as fear. When friends or strangers come around, you tense up because you know what he is about to do. He senses your stress level and translates that into “Houston, we have a problem”. He instinctively does his “job”, defence. At the pool (in an old post), he took it upon himself to decide that you were in danger and that he needed to save you from your foolishness of being in the pool. You were definitely not the leader in that case, and, to top it all off, you let him pull you out of the pool. This reinforced the fact in his mind that he thinks he is the leader of you; he owns the house, you just pay the mortgage.

Any time a dog has to be physically restrained or electro-shocked into obedience, then that restraint is all that stands between the guest and the dog. Of course, this is a dangerous situation for everyone. For example, if you had a medical emergency yourself, were barely conscious on the floor, and called 911 then passed out, even if you had a shock collar on the dog, when EMS arrived they probably would not be able to help you without incapacitating the dog.

Since you’ve abdicated your authority in the area of self defence, and you let him take over, he now intelligently assumes the role of defender.

IMHO, a person who has good success as a master of similar dogs could rehabilitate him as long as he has not gotten too far into any attack situations. He needs a leader as much as he needs love (most people are too lovey-dovey with pets).

IMHO.

[pops88]

Interesting speculation, but absolutely clueless. My dog has fear aggression issues and it’s not because I tense up when FedEx comes, because then I’m usually running to the door for my latest goodie. He also didn’t pull me out of the pool. He jumped in to rescue me, grabbed my hand and started to swim to the stairs. I was so surprised, I tolerated it for about 5 seconds and it was nipped in the bud. But thanks for being another person weighing in on how I’m such an irresponsible owner.

[visualops]

Try Amazon. I got ours there.

[visualops]

I haven’t read the last few posts, but I think you are mistaken that you are Alpha. Your dog does not obey you except when he wants, or he would behave as you command, when you command. He is controlling your life, ruining time with friends and family and keeping you all to himself. It sounds like jealously, not fear. If you don’t leave, or if you do and find a home for him with someone willing to work with him, a shock collar may be the answer to essentially retrain him. I hope it works out. Moving is a big emotional strain, especially with pets. All the best to you.

[Brad’s Gramma]

WHY do I keep forgetting Amazon???

Thanks!

[visualops]

I would not say irresponsible, and I don’t think the poster meant that. You love your dog, you treat him well, he obeys you...when he wants. Not everyone is the perfect “boss” to their dog. Because dogs aren’t people, and as people, it isn’t easy thinking like a dog :) or understanding why they do what they do. So I know this has all been very trying what with moving and where are you going to live and what will become of your wonderful furry companion.