Santorum Surges: Fr Longenecker Asks 'What is a Santorum Catholic?'

Catholic Online ^ | 2/11/12 | Fr Dwight Longenecker

[tcg]

As Rick Santorum surges in popularity people may be scratching their heads about his Catholic faith. The American public are used to Catholic politicians, but not this kind of Catholic politician.

I grew up as an Evangelical Protestant. We were prejudiced against Catholics. In our mind, Catholics were Democrats--and that was not good. We knew many of the blue collar folks were Catholics, but Catholics were also fat cats.

The Kennedys were Catholics and we had no respect for old Joe Kennedy who made his money as a bootlegger, nor for his philandering sons with their assumed air of American royalty. ... The Catholics did all that bad stuff.

I know now that my prejudices were just that. Among the worldly and sinful Catholics were many good and holy Christians. Likewise, among us Puritanical Protestants it turned out that there were many fallen and hypocritical Christians. That is really not the issue here. What my Protestant prejudices reveal is what Protestants in America have long thought about Catholics...

Protestant Evangelicals combined their theological disagreements with Catholicism with the bad example of Catholics in public life. Every time a Kennedy misbehaved the Protestants sneered and had their suspicions confirmed.

Whenever Catholic politicians like Pelosi and Biden and Kerry stood against their own church in public, the Protestants pointed fingers. When the Catholic bishops did nothing to discipline the wayward politicians Protestants raised a knowing eyebrow saying, "That figures."

Furthermore, the Kennedy Catholics in Washington were put there by the Kennedy Catholics in their own neighborhood. When they met local Catholics, more often than not they met lukewarm, badly catechized, non church going people who were only Catholic because they were Irish or Italian.

Now along comes Rick Santorum.... (READ MORE!)

[tcg]

"Now along comes Rick Santorum. A father of eight, he not only supports a pro-life message--he lives it. This Catholic politician doesn't come from a wealthy family who can buy elections for him. He doesn't rely on the mobsters or the political machine to fix elections. His grandfather was a coal miner, and he's made it on his own. Here's a Catholic politician who doesn't speak down to the working classes, but speaks up for the working classes." (Fr. Dwight Longenecker)

[Steelfish]

Thanks for this posting. Great article tcg!

[Apollo5600]

This is the only thing he has going for him. He doesn’t have a platform that is at all unique or interesting.

He doesn’t support a flat tax or any real reforms to the tax code. It’s just the USUAL games, even in business, where some will have tax cuts and others will not. He does not support a flat tax. He does not support a fair tax. He does not anything that hasn’t been heard in every election for years.

Quite frankly, he represents 4 more years of Republican mediocrity, and this is 4 years AFTER a terrible Barack Obama who really could have been used as a pretty good reason to introduce some radical reforms.

While conservatives are falling inlove with these vapid character arguments, they are ignoring platforms and are displaying their lack of vision or strategic sense.

Another thing I find disturbing is this phenomena of Protestants essentially treating Catholicism on an equal level. For REAL Southern Baptist types, such as myself, the issue has never been about character. Bishop Fulton Sheen came off pretty good. Michael Voris of today, a conservative Catholic, is definitely a good guy. The PROBLEM is in dangerous theology that denies the work of Christ, and joins His good works with our own or with some Saint or Mary to whom they expect us to go through in order to get to Christ. Therefore, this whole “He’s one of us” and this admission that this particular individual was judging Catholicsm by some Catholics reveals the overall vapidity of his thinking process.

[moonhawk]

Wow. A REAL Baptist? R U series?

Holy Water, Batman!!

You need to study up a little more, Son.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“The PROBLEM is in dangerous theology that denies the work of Christ, and joins His good works with our own or with some Saint or Mary to whom they expect us to go through in order to get to Christ.”

Clearly - if that is what you believe - then the real problem is ignorance. Yours.

[GreyFriar]

Thank you for posting this. Santorum is typical of Catholics I grew up with in Indiana and Ohio. Hard working people of faith like their Protestant brethern. Kennedy’s were “glamor” and we learned that they were, essentially, CINO — Catholic in Name Only.

This is the difference between the coastal elites and the people who live in “fly over country.” The REAL people of this nation.

[Apollo5600]

No, it is accurate. If you have sinned a sin, do you speak to God, or do you go to your Priest for your confession? When you go to Church, is it anywhere where two or three Christians are gathered, or is it in a building run by a Priest?

Either way, it’s utterly irrelevant to me. My criticism was mostly aimed at Protestants who insist there is no difference between them and Catholicism. These are essential points PROTESTANTS ought to agree on, but for some reason this is being forgotten for the sake of politics. The fact that so many Protestants are embracing the character arguments to support a candidate is quite disturbing.

[Apollo5600]

If you have “committed a sin”, not sinned a sin. Typo.**

[steve8714]

You mean the theology which predates yours by 15 centuries, and is closest to the sense of the original Church? Really? Seriously? People said Reagan was short on specifics, too. Rick’s not Reagan, but he’s the best of this lot.

[Mach9]

Tcg: A convert who remembers only the Catholic dems must have missed the Bill Buckley period. National Review, which essentially started, supported, and defined the Conservative movement was produced mainly by Catholics (and New England Catholics, at that)! Without WFB, there could have been no Reagan.

Apollo: It seems ridiculous to mention, but Catholics’ idea of citizenship, rights, and duty conform (by nature, not by recent choice or compulsion) with the U. S. Constitution at least as closely as, if not more closely than, any other religious or nonreligious group in the country. But it isn’t Christ’s work or divinity that we deny. The difference you’re talking about, I think, is that we do indeed deny that man’s good works DON’T count toward his individual salvation. (Sorry about the double-negative.) And “Not everyone who sayeth Lord, Lord . . .,” the Beatitudes, the good Samaritan, so many other references speak on our behalf. Good works, biblically and logically, count. No Catholic is ever inculcated with the idea that he must use a medium (Mary or the saints) to get through to God. They’re examples, folks who’ve fought the great battle, lived holy lives (n.b, have performed good works). Our most important prayer is the Our Father, said in every Mass.

I do hope that someday we’ll reach a level equal to yours.

[Campion]

If you have sinned a sin, do you speak to God, or do you go to your Priest for your confession? When you go to Church, is it anywhere where two or three Christians are gathered, or is it in a building run by a Priest?

That has nothing to do with "denying the work of Christ" and everything to do with following his orders. He wasn't just blowing smoke in John 20:23.

These are essential points PROTESTANTS ought to agree on, but for some reason this is being forgotten for the sake of politics. The fact that so many Protestants are embracing the character arguments to support a candidate

If you're only going to vote for candidates with whose theology you're in perfect agreement, you should probably think about running for office yourself so you'll have someone to vote for.

At this point, this election is between two Catholics, a Mormon with a track record of liberalism, and a communist with Muslim sympathies. You can decide that believing Catholics are Christians with whom you share a considerable amount of agreement, or you can let one of the other two win. You pick.

[TASMANIANRED]

“Another thing I find disturbing is this phenomena of Protestants essentially treating Catholicism on an equal level”

Burned any crosses lately.

[Apollo5600]

“If you’re only going to vote for candidates with whose theology you’re in perfect agreement, you should probably think about running for office yourself so you’ll have someone to vote for.”

Considering I’m a pretty outspoken supporter of Newt Gingrich, this whole paragraph from you basically means you don’t understand where I’m coming from.

My comment was aimed at Protestants who are getting into the character arguments as their major reason to support someone, even going so far as to ignore major differences in doctrine.

“That has nothing to do with “denying the work of Christ” and everything to do with following his orders. He wasn’t just blowing smoke in John 20:23.”

The orders of Christ, however, are sometimes in direct contradiction to orders given by man. The fact of the matter is, Catholicism places Saints, rituals and objects directly between people and Christ. It is directly in contradiction to the spirit of worship Christ said would come, when men would no longer worship in the large, visible Jewish temple, but “in spirit and in truth”, where “two or three” gather and form a Church proper, where man knocks on CHRIST’S door, instead of some Priest.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“No, it is accurate. If you have sinned a sin, do you speak to God, or do you go to your Priest for your confession?”

Both - Just as He arranged (John 20:19-23).

“When you go to Church, is it anywhere where two or three Christians are gathered, or is it in a building run by a Priest?”

I don’t go to “Church”. Learn English. You might attend a “church”, but not a “Church”. I assist at Mass. It could be in a church or a hotel room or a private home - just like in the early Church.

“Either way, it’s utterly irrelevant to me. My criticism was mostly aimed at Protestants who insist there is no difference between them and Catholicism.”

I understand that, but your “criticism” may be based on ignorance and misperceptions. It certainly seems to be from what you have posted.

“These are essential points PROTESTANTS ought to agree on, but for some reason this is being forgotten for the sake of politics. The fact that so many Protestants are embracing the character arguments to support a candidate is quite disturbing.”

Protestants can’t agree. That’s why they exist as Protestants. That won’t change either.

[jobim]

denies the work of Christ

That's rich. It's also an untruthfully mendacious lie.

[Apollo5600]

Good “fruits” can be a manifestation of the type of “tree” which produces them. But it isn’t anything that assists you into heaven or can even keep you from them. What matters is the condition of the heart, which though horribly flawed, either belongs to Christ or doesn’t.

Romans 4

1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

So I’ll ask you this same question. If you commit a sin, who do you go to... Christ for forgiveness, or must you go to a Priest for confession? If it’s the latter, then who are you to say that the entire Catholic faith revolves around putting one barrier after another between you and direct access to God?

[USS Alaska]

Another thing I find disturbing is this phenomena of Protestants essentially treating Catholicism on an equal level. For REAL Southern Baptist types, such as myself, the issue has never been about character.

You are a religious bigot, and you have no reason to be one.

Catholics walked the earth for 1400 years before a Baptist sneaked away from Martin Luther's shadow.

Treating Catholics on an equal level; do you realize how ignorant that makes you, just by thinking it, let alone having the moment of insanity to post it.

You arrogant REAL Southern Baptist, I hope some of your Southern Baptist brothers will chastise you, because this Catholic, resents being dragged down to the level that you call equal.

[RobbyS]

You are confusing Catholic teaching was a strain of Protestant theology against which the Wesley brothers rebelled, as did the leaders of the First Great Awakening, of the “New Lights” against, the “Old Lights, ‘ and their rationalism, which attempted to reduce Christianity to its morality. Santorum and evangelicals do share a common moral code, which is stricter than that of either liberal Protestants or liberal Catholics. But they share the belief that Christ is God and that he is the rightful ruler of the world and our hearts.

[Apollo5600]

“I don’t go to “Church”. Learn English. You might attend a “church”, but not a “Church”. I assist at Mass. It could be in a church or a hotel room or a private home - just like in the early Church.”

Since individual Christians are, in fact, members of the body of Christ and therefore the Church (capitalized), my usage is accurate.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The question is, does one of those 2 or 3 individuals have to be a Priest, ordained by a recognized religious body, in order to have Christ “in the midst” of them?

John 4
19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

One wonders how an individual can look at scriptures like these and yet generally ignore them when it comes to Catholicism’s (and many other religions in the world) emphasis on visible structures, rituals and images of spirituality.

The addition of Saints, to whom you pray to for assistance in certain matters, or Priests to whom you must confess to, are unnecessary. It is certainly good to have accountability amongst a group of individuals, as it keeps you honest. But the idea that you MUST do it, otherwise your sin is not forgiven, is simply another barrier.

[Apollo5600]

I said Catholicism, so I would appreciate it if you stopped emoting. I never said anything about not treating Catholics as equal citizens. I said everything about not treating Catholic theology as equal to everyone else.

This is no different than a guy like Michael Voris stating that those who do not believe in Catholicism as being in mortal danger.

Get a clue.