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Posted on 01/26/2012 9:34:45 PM PST by WilliamIII
Mitt Romney's tax returns reveal that the Republican presidential candidate does something fewer Americans do these days: He tithes.
Romney's 2009 and 2010 tax returns, released Tuesday, show that he and his wife, Ann, gave 10 percent of their income, about $4.1 million, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The couple reported income of about $43 million for the two years.
LDS church members must tithe to participate in temple rituals. Nearly 80 percent of Mormons tithe, a poll released this month by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life shows.
While tithing among Mormons is high, it is at an all-time low – less than 3 percent – among many faith groups, according to an October report by Empty Tomb, a Christian research organization. The theology behind tithing is also being questioned, with many saying the mandate to contribute 10 percent is not biblical.
Tithing has its roots in the Old Testament – "Bring all the tithes to the storehouse," from the book of Malachi – and means one-tenth of income.
"The New Testament says a Christian is saved under grace and it does not teach tithing," said Russell Kelly who argues against it on his website, www.shouldthechurchteachtithing. com. "A lot of people would rather stay home than go to church and hear about it. All it does is make them feel as if they're cursed for not giving 10 percent."
(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...
My former pastor used to always answer that question like this: "Just like the Jews were not required to tithe on the grain the crows ate, you don't have to tithe on the grain the IRS crows eat."
I have tithed for probably 35 years. Can’t afford not to.
In the OT, tithing supported the temple priests, distributions to the needy, and for maintenance of the temple. These needs are consistent within a balanced and functioning NT church.
Well, I was actually basing it upon the Pew study released just this month...
But you are right about one thing: People don't always respond truthfully to polls...so I should have qualified it as around 80% of Mormons say they tithe...Perhaps around 80% have tithed at some point in their lives...How many of them actually do...well...I don't know.
Interesting. That verse in Malachi where it talks about the “increase” of your seed would also tend to that it is on your net income - and not the gross.
Our preacher did say that it is considered to be 10% to your home church, not including other charities. We’re working on that aspect of it. He also made it a point to mention in his “tithing” sermon that it had been 19 months since he had given his last sermon on giving money to the church. “I wrote it down because I KNOW someone will come up to me afterwards and say ‘didn’t you just give this sermon?’”.
TMI. . . . TMI. . . . TMI. . . .
Why pick on Christians and Jews? What about VP Biden who gave less than $400 to charity, and Obama who gave 1%?
You can’t buy your way into Heaven. Giving has to be done freely, not forced.
The important question to ask is what do the Mormons do with all that money they take in? Do they do anything resembling Christian charity for other than their own? No! They do mussionuzing to convert and even spend tgeir time baptizing dead people. Compare to Catholic Charities, Federation of Protestant Welfare Agencies and UJA and the many other Jewish charitable organizations. They all help those in need, the sick, poor, homeless, children, elderly, regardless of race or religion,
Did the Mormons cut the story if the Samaritan woman out of their Bible?
Why pick on Christians and Jews? What about VP Biden who gave less than $400 to charity, and Obama who gave 1%?
You can’t buy your way into Heaven. Giving has to be done freely, not forced.
Bishops are not paid for their service [corrector, post #98]
#1: They used to be...as they also used to give stipends to stake clerks.
#2: Lds still pay their Presiding bishoprics, their, general authorities, and mission presidents.
How many people -- at the very least -- are on their payrolls outside of their various HQ buildings in Salt Lake City?
Well, I won't even get into all the entities and businesses that Lds, Inc. owns. (For example, the Lds church owns about 1% of the entire state of Florida!]
Let's just focus on general authorities, bishoprics, and mission presidents...each mention of "dozens" below represent a dozen on the payroll:
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Source: Yes...it's a purely anecdotal source...but it claims that the 70 Presiding Bishoprics are part of the 854 overall church leaders who receive a living allowance/stipend/salary (whatever game-playing people want to call it). See So How many Lds church leaders receive 'stipends'
The financial stewards at most churches have to account for every penny in contributions. To the congregation and to the IRS. Thhey are nit “sworn to secrecy”. If people want to make their donations anonymous, they can specify as such. If you want to put cash in collection plate instead of a check, ut is still counted.
Most Protestant churches are incredibly meticulous & transparent concerning finances.
It’s the Mormons who are secretive and swear oaths to secrecy, which is, in and of itself, a problem.
In short, tithing is a principal of faith for members, that we give as gratitude and through obedience to God. To suggest otherwise is for the most part just ignorance and hateful. If I paid tithing just to attend the temple, you could at least surmise that attending the temple also has deep significance to members with regard to their commitment [corrector, post #98]
Do you realize, dave & corrector [others; lurkers] that while some...
...Mormon leaders...
...posters on this thread...
...appeal to tithing as an ancient practice, that one of the "prophets" said
-- at the 1900 General Conference of all places -- that the reason why the Lord imposed "The Law of Tithing" on the Mormon people was...
...because they were imperfect at fulfilling a greater law -- "The Law of Consecration."
[This was enfolded under the United Order "revelations" of Joseph Smith...yet because the Utah Mormons failed this order by their gods in the late 1880s into the 1890s, "The Law of Tithing" has since become the #1 emphasized law @ Lds.org!]
If you don't want to take my word for it, just read the following:
1949: Doctrine and Covenants Studies, by Bryant S. Hinckley
Chapter 42: THE LAW OF TITHING (Section 119)
Why Instituted
We know of no better statement as to why the Lord revealed the law of tithing than that made by President Joseph F. Smith at the general conference of the Church in April, 1900. “Why the Law of Tithing Was Instituted – The Lord revealed to his people in the incipiency of his work a law which was more perfect than the law of tithing. It comprehended larger things, greater power, and a more speedy accomplishment of the purposes of the Lord. But the people were unprepared to live by it, and the Lord, out of mercy to the people, suspended the more perfect law [the law of consecration and stewardship], and gave the law of tithing, in order that there might be means in the storehouse of the Lord for the carrying out of the purposes he had in view...; (GD, p. 282.)
Secondary Sources: Bryant S. Hinckley, 1949, citing Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p. 282. Doctrine and Covenants Studies
Therefore, of all the laws a Mormon might boast about as fulfilling, this one -- although emphasized the most by Lds, Inc. on its Web site -- it's actually the least to be proud of!
Why? Because their "prophet," Joseph F. Smith said in 1900 that this was a sort of "second-best" law that the Lord gave in/relenting to...
...via the reality that Mormons just couldn't quite get that 100% consecrated socialism-communism law down pat...that law called, "The Law of Consecration" -- otherwise known as the United Order! (Which, btw, Joseph Smith "lied" about in claiming in the Doctrine & Covenants that it was an "everlasting" order)
The Law of Tithing itself, by the Lds own "prophet's" concession, was geared toward realizing how IMperfect Mormons were in following Joseph Smith's revelations!!!
But, hey, since at one time almost 80% of Smith's revelations were fiscally related, I'm sure the Mormon people got tired of hearing Smith preach and preach about his fave topic -- $!
My Baptist church treasurer/secretary prints out a statement every month, itemizing meticulously, every cent taken in and every cent spent. Copies are handed out to every congregant who wants one.
Every year a committee puts together a budget, then every adult member votes on it. Our Pastor of 43 years receives a salary of $26,000 yearly. He has an earned doctorate (as opposed to an honorary one). He had always held another full time job outside the Pastorate, until retiring from it.
Yeah; I've run in to this, too.
To simplify it: Saved by GRACE - Kept by WORKS. What is wrong with THAT picture?
My pastor does that once a year...
we all get a copy of the financial statement..
and he invites anyone who wants to to come to his office during the week anytime and see the open books...
he also asks if we think there may be errors...
he tells us every week how many weve fed and clothed and much has been spent on food etc for that past week
and its often MORE than was given as tithes and offerings..
that amount we also are told..
However many Mormon bishops do that ???
No we have no malls, no resorts, no huge farms
as far as man as concerned we’re not successful
But in God’s economy....
bttt
As Greyfoxx indicated, many on FR are X-Mo. I've pinged at least six such X-Mo on this post alone...and I'm a direct descendent of a Mormon leader...and have spoken with MANY Lds relatives and acquaintances (as in triple figures)...
Hence, I'm able to post what Mormon leaders have said (see post #132). Hence, I'm able to elaborate upon things like historical Mormon socialism which pre-dated the Mormon "law of tithing" (the United Order; the Law of consecration -- see post #132).
And many posting in this thread have had literally thousands of conversations with Lds FREEPERS. So, why do you assume we lack discernment?
Bottom line? Hey -- We aren't voting for Romney; 94% of Mormons in Utah & Nevada in '08 voted for Romney the RINO & at least 86% of Lds have a "favorable" view of Romney the RINO now...So who again is utterly FAILING to show basic discernment?
We vote on anything that comes up, that’s outside the budget. Back in the hottest part of the summer, a nearby church had it’s air conditioner give out, they didn’t have the money to get a new system, so we voted on whether or not to help and if so, how much.
We wound up giving $2,000, which paid for the new unit. I always go along with stuff like this but more recently, an 18 year old young man in our church joined the National Guard and was leaving for basic training. Some in the church wanted to give him a going away cash gift, saying that he didn’t have any money to take with him.
I kept my mouth shut during the discussion even though I knew from experience just how much money he needed for the first 8 weeks, which is exactly zero dollars and zero cents. The rest of the folks decided to give him $200 and I’m fine with that too. I wasn’t about to open my mouth and sound like a scrooge over $200.
If a person pays on the net, then it seems to follow that a person should pay a tithe on the tax refund.
I agree with your pastor that the tithe should go to one's home church.
“..should pay a tithe on the tax refund.”
What’s that!? (LOL.)
Our kid’s at a young age were taught to give 10% of any birthday or Christmas cash. Now that they are older that is one of the first things they figure out and set aside. (Thanks to their mom for that great life lesson!)
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