Posted on 01/21/2012 6:43:43 AM PST by tomkat
It's 0930 EST and there's nothing in the sidebar that looks like a live thread for the SC primary . . .
And until America gets over this intangle, American Idol BS in picking a candidate, we’re screwed. What matters to me are conservative principles and people that not only promote them, but abide by them.
Santorum’s basically the only one left I would personally consider settling on. Originally, I was for Bachmann, and I still admire her greatly despite the amount of negativity she got around here. Then I was a firm supporter of the Cain Train, but as the false accusation continued to amount and people began to label him as stupid for how he handled reporters, they pushed a good man out. That left Santorum and Perry, two of which I could support. But Perry also got the “moron” label applied to him by people of this forum who expect the 2012 Election to be decided by the debates, ultimately forcing him out.
I live in Realville (as Rush puts it, and has also stated the fall debates won’t play as large a role as everyone expects). Newt will disappoint. In fact, not only will he disappoint, but when he strays off the conservative reservation, he will lecture us on why we (the conservatives) are wrong and he is right. Example was this attack on Capitalism that Rush called “indefensible”. Notice, Newt has never backed down off of this attack, he just diverted the subject to another strength (calling for the release of Romney’s tax returns). Whenever he knows he is wrong, he diverts off of it to a strength. Good debate tactic. But the more you get used to it, the more you start to see through it.
It will start with the running mate discussion. I guarantee you 99% an Establishment RINO will be on that ticket. And while I try to say “See I told you so”, people here are already working on defending the choice and comparing it to Reagan’s selection of Bush I. It’s going to happen.
Lastly, because I understand the Election is decided by the Electoral College, I know that essentially any of our nominees has just as much a chance to win the Election. All of them will carry the McCain states from 2008. All of them will most likely carry IN and NC. Each has about the same shot in FL, VA, and OH. That’s 266 Electoral Votes. Add in another toss-up state, and it’s game over. I reject the argument that Newt can only accomplish this and Santorum can’t because I’ve looked at the county by county data for each of these states and will continue to do so as the Election approaches. We had a chance to put a real conservative in, and are laying a major egg.
“You resemble a Taliban fundamentalist. Repentance is Repentance, and in God’s eyes, through the salvation of Jesus Christ, we all become pure in spirit, completely absolved, forgiven, and detached from our past.”
So when a brother commits mortal sin and continues to persist in mortal sin, we are to consider this repentence?
“You seem unable to understand that, instead, you claim that salvation comes from physical separation only.”
Nonsense. What do you think I mean when I say he should return to his lawful wife. That means turning - away from sin, not towards it.
“Therefore, their marriage is as righteous as are those who have been married in virtue to one person their entire life.”
Just as presumably it was for Jackie, eh?
“I is equally hypocritical to claim that because you are Catholic, you have a “Right” to judge others, Catholics or otherwise. In all Biblical Law, there is no such Right.”
Yes there is. In 1 Corinthians 5. It says we are to judge those inside the Church.
“If you still make that ridiculous claim then quote to all of us, the exact Scripture from the New Testament that proves it.”
I already have. 1 Corinthians 5. You are wrong, very wrong. The Church can judge those who are inside - for to allow someone to sin openly casts aspersions to the body of Christ. That’s what Paul teaches.
Those who are outside - that is up to God and not us. There is a difference. Paul goes on to speak about Church discipline, how one is to correct someone who is committing these sins, etc. It’s all there.
If that makes me a fundamentalist taliban for understanding what the Church teaches and what Scripture actually says about all this, then so be it.
OTOH, if Marianne was really meeting arms dealers in France behind his back, I could sorta see where he might want to bail out of that relationship.
oops you were talking about Iowa! I hope they do better in SC as there was something about 8 areas where the vote can’t be certified?
Seems I always need to preface my comments with this, but I have spent the past 30+ years learning the means and methods of splitting hairs from my LIBERAL Catholic inlaws.
Pewlouise is a flipping lying, thieving, commie and spent 4 years as the Speaker of the Peoples house stripping US clean bare. None of what I just typed is 'judging' her personal sins, it is a national disgrace that such an incompetent twit ever sat in that position. See I finally figured out WHY Christ said there would always be the 'poor' among US, because of liberal democrats.
I would NEVER EVER say anyone should be denied 'communion'. I do not believe for one blink of the eye any flesh being has that kind of authority. That thief hanging on the cross was NOT required to follow any of man made tradition for Christ to tell him HE would see him in paradise. AND when upon the death of His flesh body there was a miracle in the temple and that 'veil' that hide the 'priest' was rent from TOP to BOTTOM, and each and every individual that would has through Christ direct access to the Heavenly Father. See some religiosity seem to think only through them and their traditions can we in the flesh be offered salvation.
I have been looking, looking hard for any evidence that his first marriage was annulled.
His second one, yes, but not the first.
If you know, please, please show me. I have been looking and haven’t found it.
At least I didn't have to hold my nose and vote for Newt like I had to with McCain.
I still have no idea how to get lukewarm Republican voters to the polls in November. Vote for him because he's not Obama isn't a winning strategy as we saw in the last Presidential election.
Repentence would constitute either leaving his mistress and remaining single or returning to his lawful wifeComing in the middle and too tired to follow up thread, but you do know Newt has a valid Catholic marriage, right? His prior two have been annulled, iirc.
“If they are true Christians, they will accept Gingrich or Santorum.”
True. And if they are intelligent they will vote for the man that has shown an overwhelmingly strong offense, even taking it to the media when the situation called for it.
Consistency and honesty mean nothing in a primary when your favorite candidate is losing.
Badly.
For the self-righteous, below is something to consider:)
Sexual Secrets of the Normal ~ Robert W. Godwin, PhD -forensic clinical psychology
“I would NEVER EVER say anyone should be denied ‘communion’. I do not believe for one blink of the eye any flesh being has that kind of authority.”
Well, here’s where you and I part ways. I think Paul is really clear here, that the Church can and does have the authority to deny communion to those who are manifest sinners.
“That thief hanging on the cross was NOT required to follow any of man made tradition”
You aren’t a Catholic, which explains why you don’t agree with the teaching of the Church that states that there is an infalliable magisterium. This is why we disagree on this point. I believe in the infalliable magisterium, so please understand it.
“See some religiosity seem to think only through them and their traditions can we in the flesh be offered salvation.”
The Church doesn’t teach that God is limited to the Church. This is a common misconception. Some have taught this, but the Church said, explicitly, that Romans contradicts this, saying that even those who have no contact with God and the Church, will be saved, “for they are a law unto themselves”.
Hope that clears up a few things.
The GOP needs to get their act together on the primaries. Open primaries, same day registration, no voter ID, corrupt the system. Any state with open primaries or same day registration should be forced to move their primaries to the end of the process.
You wrote: “We are electing a PRESIDENT. Not a youth pastor, or a Pope. (Quoting Chuck Norris)Frankly, with the economy so bad, stalled by 40 years of Democrat policies, and thing so screwed up, we are looking for LEADERSHIP, and they realize that even in evangelical South Carolina.As someone once said, “IT’S THE ECONOMY, STUPID!””
Dennis Prager agrees. bttt
Dennis Prager
December 6, 2011 4:00 A.M.
Adultery and Politics
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/284968/adultery-and-politics-dennis-prager?page=1
Religious conservatives often go wrong by focusing on candidates’ sexual sins.
With Herman Cain’s announcement that he was suspending his presidential campaign because of the charges of sexual harassment and of a 13-year-long affair, issues are raised that the country would do well to think through.
The two most obvious are whether we should care about a politician’s sexual life, and how much the press should report about these matters.
But there is a larger issue that needs to be addressed first: What does adultery tell us about a person?
For many Americans, the answer is, “Pretty much all we need to know.” This certainly seems to be the case with regard to presidential candidates. The view is expressed this way: “If he can’t keep his vows to his wife, how can we trust him to keep his vows to his country?”
I am a religious conservative, but I know this statement has no basis in fact. It sounds persuasive, but it is a non-sequitur.
We have no reason to believe that men who have committed adultery are less likely to be great leaders, or that men who have always been faithful are more likely to be great leaders.
To religious readers, I point to God Himself, who apparently thought that King David deserved to remain king, and even have the Messiah descend from him, despite a particularly ugly form of covering up his adultery (sending Bathsheba’s husband into battle where he would assuredly be killed).
And while we are on the subject of leadership, another question for religious and/or conservative readers who believe that a man who sexually betrays his wife is likely to betray his country: Which would you prefer for president a pro-life conservative who had had an affair, or a pro-choice man of the Left who had always been faithful to his wife?
• Jimmy Carter, to the best of our knowledge, has been faithful to his wife throughout their long marriage. That is certainly commendable. Did it make him in any way a better president? Has it given moral acuity to the man who wrote a book equating democratic Israel with apartheid South Africa?
• The American who may have singlehandedly prevented inter-racial war in America, Martin Luther King Jr., committed adultery on a number of occasions.
• Would John F. Kennedy, a serial adulterer while in the White House, have been any different a president were he faithful?
Just knowing that a man or a woman has had extramarital sex may tell us nothing about the person that is relevant to his or her public life. I have always wanted to know: Why is sexual sin in general, and adultery in particular, the one sin that many religious people regard as defining a person, as well as a sin that is almost unforgiveable?
Nothing here is in any way meant to be a defense of adultery. As a religious Jew, I believe it violates one of the Ten Commandments. As a married person, I know how much it would hurt my wife if I did it, and how much it would hurt me if my wife had an affair.
But marriage is too complex an arena to draw any immediate conclusions about a person. Are we to label a man who takes loving care a wife with Alzheimer’s and who has a discreet affair no more than an adulterer who merits disdain and mistrust? Is a woman who stays in an emotionally abusive marriage for the sake of her children someone with little integrity because she sought to be held in another man’s loving arms? The questions and nuances are innumerable.
And what is adultery? Women have called my radio show to tell me that a man who gets a lap dance has committed adultery. Others go further saying that merely attending a strip show, or looking at Playboy, is adultery.
To my mind this is emotion, not reason, morality, or religion. Yes, many Christians cite Jesus as saying that a man who lusts after a woman other than his wife has committed adultery with his heart. But Jesus made it clear that this is adultery with the heart. Jesus, a practicing and knowledgeable Jewish rabbi, would never equate actual adultery with adultery with one’s heart. And if someone believes the two are morally identical, why not start asking candidates if they have ever lusted for any woman other than their wife?
In choosing a president of the United States, adultery would greatly matter to me if it were engaged in indiscreetly. I don’t trust the integrity or conscience of a man or woman who publicly humiliates his or her spouse.
Beyond that, I do not want to know anything about the sexual life of any candidate.
Media reporting or questioning about candidates’ sexual lives constitutes a form of hypocrisy so deep that the English language does not have a word for it.
Media people report on the sexual lives of candidates for virtually any public office on the grounds that since these politicians have great power, the public needs to know all about them.
Yet, they offer no insight into their own sexual lives, even though some in the news media are far more powerful than almost any politician except the president of the United States. If we cannot trust a candidate who committed adultery, then why can we trust a news reporter or editor who has committed adultery?
The only thing this preoccupation with candidates’ sexual lives has achieved is to ensure that some of the best, brightest, finest, and most honest men in America never run for office.
Dennis Prager is a nationally syndicated radio talk-show host and columnist. He may be contacted through his website, dennisprager.com.
“So when a brother commits mortal sin and continues to persist in mortal sin, we are to consider this repentance?”
Gingrich converted to The Catholic Church after his marriage to Calista. He is a regular communion taker. Gingrich sought annulments from his wives.
I assumed you were Catholic? Newt Gingrich’s conversion and repentance are between him, Jesus Christ and his Priest.
If you want to disparage Gingrich, please persist without your false appeals and misinterpretations to the authority of the Catholic Church. You also may want to look to your own hardened heart on this matter.
“So when a brother commits mortal sin and continues to persist in mortal sin, we are to consider this repentance?”
Gingrich converted to The Catholic Church after his marriage to Calista. He is a regular communion taker. Gingrich sought annulments from his wives.
I assumed you were Catholic? Newt Gingrich’s conversion and repentance are between him, Jesus Christ and his Priest.
If you want to disparage Gingrich, please persist without your false appeals and misinterpretations to the authority of the Catholic Church. You also may want to look to your own hardened heart on this matter.
Many considered Romney but debates were game changer.”
___________________________________________
Romney looks like a matinee idol..
The silly females swoon “Oh Mitty”
Romney opens his mouth...
Thank you!
Somehow the Catholic Church in all of it's fundamental mutation of the scripture, convoluted that to mean that there needs to be this ridiculous declaration, investigation and near canonization that a marriage is not over until the Pope, a Bishop or a Cardinal says so.
Like I said before, you keep hammering on this fundamental protocol that means nothing. Unless you think that God himself is no longer in charge of salvation or annulment. Only the Catholic Church is.
No wonder so many other churches have broken away from the legalistic Catholic church hierarchy/theocracy.
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