You stated that people in other natioins were just as generous with their funds as the people in the United States are. I knew that was wrong and I found something to buttress my beliefs. Then you morphed the topic to what a 'true believer' should do. Puffing ourselves up? Wow! If you bothered to read what I wrote (or you're suffering memory loss-sarcasm) I did not mention funds as the only means of generosity, I mentioned generosity as acts like giving a poor person a glass of water and stated in post #634 that it's not the amount given that matters. So, it is you who morphs everything into terms of funds. WOW! :-)
Okay, lets see what points you touched on here.
1. If I bothered to read...
2. If I wasn't suffering memory loss...
3. You didn't mention funds as the only means of generosity...
4. You mentioned physical acts of generosity...
5. It's not the amount given that matters...
6. So it is supposedly me who morphs everything to a monetary standard...
7. WOW!
8. :-)
In all honesty, I'm not really enjoying this. I know you mean well, but some of the things you state cause me not to be able to walk off without responding. There are reasoned education level rebuttles, and I am compelled to make them.
I did bother to read what you stated.1 I did not suffer memory less when responding to it.2 Here is one of the things you stated.
"There is only complexity of this issue because of man’s lack of ability to love others and respect the fact that the entire earth was open for everyone to live wherever one chooses too live." R LINK
I chose to respond to the issue highlighted with this.
Man does not have an inability to love others.R U.S. citizens and corporations paid out $290 billion dollars in charitable giving in 2010.R LINK Our government pays out approaching half a trillion dollars per year to U. S. citizens who supposedly need help, even if they don't.R We error on the side of handing out freebies in excess, simply so we won't be seen as uncaring.R
We donate at church, at work, to the Salvation Army, to a myriad of concerns too numerous to mention. We donate to local schools. We donate on a whim if a neighbor or someone at work is going though a rough time. If the school athletic team needs new equipment, we pitch in. If the local symphony has a need, we pitch in. If a homeless shelter needs help, we volunteer our time.3, 4, 5
We do these things because we have an inherent drive to help others. Please don't forget this in your haste to list the evils of man. There is that too, but man is also a noble being. LINK
Well, did I only address the monetary side of things here? No. I also touched on personal physical involvement. In another post I touched on it in more detail. Here I'd like to remind you that we volunteer our time for family, friends, neighbors, and other people in need. At the office we chip in to celebrate birthdays for those we barely know. At the supermarket we allow others to go in front of us if they only have one item and we have a lot of items. These are acts of kindness, or an expression of love or caring for others. Here's that other information I provided.
In this post LINK you stated, "There is goodness in many people, not just Americans..." I responded with...
<>Q. Are Americans more or less charitable than citizens of other countries?
A. No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans.3, 4, 5 These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American.3, 4, 5 LINK LINK
So at this late date, who is still harping on the monetary? I even highlighted the text above in red for you. So tell me, is it me who is fixated on the monetary, or is it you?
I did address the non monetary portion of man's generosity to man. You simply ignored it in your zeal to correct me.7, 8
You said.."No you don't." to me, referring that somehow I don't know people who serve the poor as if they are slaves to them along with doing other family activities and other things you mentioned.
You're wrong, I do know people like this. Do you realize FR has rules against saying someone lied in personal matters that can't be disputed?
Perhaps we're suffering a difference in comprehension about what a slave is. Do you really understand what is being said here?
A slave is a person who...
<>1. is owned by a master
2. has no income
3. has no earthly posessions
4. spends all waking hours doing the master's bidding
5. spends only the amount of time alotted by the master (if any at all) with his family (although the word family does not actually exist for a slave)
6. the slave, their spouse and children are considered to be no more than cattle to a master
7. the slave's spouse can be sold or gifted to another master
8. the slave's children can be sold or gifted to another master
9. the slave can be sold or gifted to another master
10. the slave has no privacy with his family
11. the slave can be sired or impregnated against their will to another slave on the master's plantation
12. the slave can be beaten or mutilated as per the master's whim
13. the slave can be killed on the master's whim
I said no you don't. I did not say you lied. I remain unconvinced that you know anyone who has enslaved themselves. If you don't, then it's a simple thing to admit. I believe the admonition itself was well-intended, but hollow and sadly misguided. Enslaving one's self to anyone or anything is wrong. Even Jesus does not ask us to enslave ourselves to Him. He asks us to follow Him willingly. A slave does nothing purely out of willingness, because he will be physically forced if he doesn't do it. Jesus does not force us to do anything. In this life, we are given the power of choice. Slaves are not.
It makes me a well rounded individual. "..moderation in all things.
If you're going to quote me, I would apprecaite it if you would quote me with context.
This was the exchange which prompted the above comments.
I know people that do all these things you say and still serve the poor as if they are slaves to them. No you don't. If you're being a slave to charitable organizations, some other aspect of your life will suffer.
What does that make you? Lazy? It makes me a well rounded individual. "...moderation in all things..." Ring any bells?
Puffing yourself up again? Some words of wisdom for you.. love builds up but pride puffs up
You asked me a direct question on a personal level. I responded with a direct answer on a personal level. I was not bragging. I was merely restating a belief. I believe that people who work, spend time with family, friends, and associates, donate funds, and spend their time doing good things for others are well rounded people. I do believe in the theory of 'moderation in all things', even if they are good, and I expressed that.
I am not trying to put you down here. I am merely saying that you mean well, but are somewhat misquided with your admonishments. Man's sole responsability is not to others less fortunate. If it were, then man's family would quickly turn to being less fortunate. That would be theft of something that wasn't man's to give. A man owes his family personal time, for mental and spiritual growth and well being. He owes them shared personal time for pleasure and instruction. As part of that, I do believe it is his duty to instill the concepts of giving to his family as well, but that concept must not consume man above all else.
You Said,referring to Saint Pio...How would you know this? According to you, people who do good works should do them in private?
The beauty of those who serve God humbly through extreme acts of love for others is that people witness these things because they transform lives of people- even though the one who loves others to such extremes wants no recognition whatsoever
Up thread I mentioned to you that U. S. Citizens donate over $290 billion dollars per year to charitable organizations, and that they donated their time far in excess of people from other nations. Your response to this WAS NOT to say, "Wow, that's great!". It was to tell me they were doing it for recognition, not out of the kindness of their hearts. I don't know the charitable giving of anyone other than myself. These people must be doing a terrible job of broadcasting how good they are based on their donations. From time to time I hear of gifts, but I am not a person who faults others who give publicly. Public giving encourages others to give donations. It's a form of witnessing. "I give to others. It feels good to do it. Try it yourself. You'll feel good about yourself." This is not evil.
The person who donates a large sum of money to have something named after the family, is not evil. His donation will improve the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. His reward is having folks know that his family cared enough about others to do it, and you think that is evil? Really? You have a very low threshold for seeing evil in others my friend.
Saint Pio would say the following to people's lives touched by him or by a miracle... "Please don't thank me ,thank God for this...All I did was pray for you"-Saint Pio
If a person goes out of his way to help others and they say thank you, the proper response is to say you're welcome. You don't say, don't thank me, thank God. If you wish to say you did it because you were inspired by God, I'm all for it. I do believe persons should take credit for what they do that is good. It encourages them to do the same. If people think only God is responsible, then why should they lift a finger to help others? If all you did for them was pray for them and their plight was improved, then of course all credit goes to God, and His messenger.
You may have the last word,dear brother. There is no need to continue.
I will pray for you at Adoration this Thursday
Do you understand what you did by saying this? You explained to me that you were going to do something good on my behalf. You do understand that right? You did it publicly, so others could read it. You do understand that right? So you purposefully said something that would cast a certain positive light on you, instead of just doing it without telling me in public.
After you so craftily trashing others for doing things for personal gain, and explaining they did this to puff themselves up, how could you do this?
I'm not putting down the act. I am merely using your yardstick to measure what your motives were. I am not upset that you will pray for me at all. I am merely asking you to take a good long hard look at yourself.
There is an often told story of a man who was stranded on a desert island. He prayed to God for deliverance, in desperation. Along came people with a helicopter, a boat, and a submarine offering a way off the island. The stranded man refused, saying God would intervene. The man died on the island. In heaven he confronted God. I prayed and you didn't save me. God looked at him and said, "I sent you a helicopter, a boat, and a submarine."
Your story is somewhat different.
A destitute man and his family needed help. They prayed to God for relief. A man with a truck with a business name on it came to the door and offered his personal time to clean up the yard, landscape and paint the house. The man refused the help, because people would have known the business that provided it at no cost. A man from the United Way came by and offered the family a check. The man declined to take it because he knew the people who donated the funds got a tax deduction for it. Another man came by with a wad of cash, but he asked to be able to witness so others would do the same thing for other people in need. The man declined to take it because the man giving the cash was pious. Family members got sick. His son could have gotten help at a hospital with a wing that was specifically focused on his son's ailment, but the wing had been name for someone. He refused. His son died. Much the same thing happened to his wife. A women's center that had been built with donated funds, and named after the person who donated the most. The man declined to send his wife there. She died also. Finally the Lord sent an angel to the man. The angel asked, why did you allow your family accept this fate? The man said, "I wanted to make sure we only benefited from righteous works or funds." The angel responded, "Despite what you thought about those works or funds, they would have improved your and your family's lot and saved your son and wife's lives, and that would have been good. God is saddened by your plight, but it was your judgmental thoughts that caused your and their loss. Doing good things is not limited to doing it without recogniztion, without some small personal benefit, or without being a perfect person before you donate. Good is good. Evil is evil. God is saddened by your evil heart."
Man expresses his love for others all the time. I'm sorry you didn't know this. God works in mysterious ways. Be still and know that He is God, and you are not.
