Posted on 09/20/2011 7:45:45 AM PDT by winoneforthegipper
Welcome to Palin4America. This site was originally planned to go live upon Governor Palin’s announcement. Due to details of the launch of this site being leaked, we decided to bring the launch day forward and go live now.
We were still in the final stages of setting up this site when we went live, so you may come across some glitches, some empty categories and various items out of place. All of this will fall into place shortly.
As we will explain in our official introductory post, this site, while hoping to attract supporters of Governor Palin, is mostly targeted at potential supporters and people on the fence. Therefore some of the posts we will be put up may not be original content and may have already been published by our contributors on other websites in the past . We will republish them here for the interest of people who have not had the chance to read them.
(Excerpt) Read more at palin4america.com ...
I agree and I think you find that in any campaign to greater or lesser degrees.
For example, if you look on the C4P website, there was a discussion following the debate with Brian Williams about Perry’s death penalty answer. One of the C4P contributors took Perry to task for being prideful and boasting about the number of executions. The contributor said she supported the death penalty, but was aghast at the cavalier attitude Perry demonstrated.
Numerous C4P posters - myself included - took issue with her comment. In fact, the death penalty discussion was one of the very few times Perry didn’t look like a deer-in-the-headlights stumbling for an answer. For her, everything Perry said or did was wrong.
There is plenty to legitimately point out about Perry’s record - especially his rewarding cronies - there is no reason to pretend everything he says is wrong, or everything Sarah Palin says is right.
There are Perry supporters who support his policy decision on forcing the vaccine for HPV. Santorum had it exactly right - its bad policy and totally inconsistent with the concept of limited government. Bachmann was right to point out the Merck lobbyist went to work for Perry, then went back to lobbying when Perry gave the order. More importantly, Perry’s order would only offer the Merck vaccine, not the competing vaccine which is arguably superior. It was cronyism.
His supporters are inconsistent though. They oppose similar initiatives by liberals, but give Perry a pass.
Bachmann certainly has some supporters like that - just look at how they defend her remarks about the vaccine being dangerous. Paul’s supporters are infamous for a double standard and color blindness.
About the only one doesn’t have some supporters in this category is Mitt Romney, primarily because nobody is emotionally invested in him.
OK, what do you think is the first rule of conservatism?
Granted, being cynical fits with populists too, but if the nature of conservatism is to put trust and power in the individual and allow them to make their own decisions, how would being led blindly by corrupted elites fit in?
I think anyone who subscribes to the concept of rugged individualism will want to verify what they are told. To desire a limited government, you need faith the vast majority are mature enough to make decisions for themselves, or will develop the ability quickly.
My statement was a flippant joke. I’d probably probably give it much more thought if I were to come up with a list of rules for conservatives. That’d still be on the list, just not first.”
A philosophical discourse is of course vastly preferable to much of what goes on here. So this is good.
I think conservatism means first of all being guided by history and experience, not coming up with grand ideas guided only by “let’s pretend” and make believe and a desire to make things better rapidly (which usually stems from a belief system girded only by “let’s pretend”).
I don’t think the individualism, on its own, is actually a primary principle of conservatism. I think it is an accompaniment, and a good one at that, but individualism as a founding principle is the beginning and end of libertarianism. Now that said, conservatism for the last 120 years or so has been at war with the overarching state whose mission is to play a grand game of “let’s pretend” and let’s make things better overnight. Conservatism says that that has to be stopped, and it has to have an alternative. An alternative narrative is certainly the one of individual rights, and such a narrative can’t exist with the overpowering State. But at the end of the day, true conservatism, as distinguished from libertarianism, isn’t even really about the individual, as such. It is about the organic health of a people, a civilization, a country, a society. These things are works that have built up over time, and they are easy to bring down, hard to bring up. And there are plenty of examples of healthy, wonderful units of civilization where the individual doesn’t hardly exist at all, yet all of the participants flourish anyway. (Think of a healthy, large family).
Now...back to the populism point. You are quite right that is is a corollary of conservatism in this day and age. And in the political realm, conservatives can use that energy effectively. But populism also contains the seeds of its own destruction, as it ultimately rebels against everything that is “elite”...including literature, the arts, classical music, money, social position and rank, beauty, etc., etc., etc.
Huey P. Long is rightly described as a populist. He is not a conservative, but really a left-fascist. But he stood up for the little guy (or so he said).
In America today, the little guy needs to be protected from the Socialist State. That is absolutely true. And in that conservatives, populists and libertarians must be united.
But conservatives would never think that everything that comes out of the mouth of the little guy is pure wisdom and should govern us. Could they (er, we...) do better than the Harvard Faculty right now? You betcha. Conservatives wouldn’t dispute that at this moment in history (or for that matter, the foreseeable future...alas).
But in a healthy, functioning society like say America in the Founding Era, was there an elite (the Founding Fathers) who appropriately held most of the important political positions? Of course. Everyone had their place, and it functioned, and there was nothing overarching (such as a socialist state) to wreck it.
For a time, at least.
So fast forward to today. Does this have any relevance to the 2012 election? I think it does. I think some strands of what constitutes the Right in America today are really informed more by populism, rather than conservatism. Populism has reared its head on the right in my lifetime in the Y2K embarrassment, in the Buchanan campaigns, and on other occasions. And every election cycle when the polls go bad for us here at FR, we hear populism at work when everyone says “the polls always lie”. Well, the polls don’t always lie. In fact, some of them are spot on. History proves that. And similarly not EVERYTHING the “elites” say is false. Aside from being metaphysically impossible for that to be the case, that level of fear and loathing makes us end up not using tools that could actually help us. Are we really better off in the long run by having our candidates say, “the polls always lie”? Do we really want to never trust polls? If we do that, then we are not using a tool in the box, basically disarming ourselves.
In any event. Not to go on too long, but maybe a few points worthy of further discussion....best regards.
re: “Assuming Sarah Palin is elected, it won’t be because of her that America is turned around.
It will be because the American people realize the damage the institutions are doing and will turn them around themselves.
She may be a welcome change, but she really is incidental to what happens, not instrumental.
The power have always been in the hands of the people, not particular individuals.”
I agree with your first two statements, not the last two.
For me, and a lot of people I know, Sarah was the catalyst for us realizing we had a voice and were not a minority in our conservative thinking. We the people have the responsibility, but it sure would help if we had a President and Congress on our side.
I’m taking this opportunity to announce that I may announce I’m running for President...Leep2012! :)
I’m a Palin so I can joke about it.
You Perry people better not laugh!
What’s the hurry? You can’t vote until the second Tuesday in November 2012.
Yeah, whatever.
I think we get that. ;=)
Have you ever read the Wizard of Oz, or seen the movie?
You know, how in the end, the Wizard admits that he didn’t have the ability to grant the groups wishes, because they’ve always had it in them, even if they didn’t realize it?
Yeah, just because Conservatives didn’t understand their power because the media and institutions kept telling them that they were powerless, didn’t mean they were. :)
And Sarah definitely deserves credit for helping you guys realize what you’ve always had.
Ever heard of Emily Post? http://www.emilypost.com/forms-of-address/titles/118-addressing-a-former-us-president
And of course, why would you be worried about reaching the open-minded/undecided for someone who’s not running.....
Holy Crap I never said that!
I never said that! Was quoting what Jonty30 had said! That post was Jonty30`s words, I copied it and responded back to him with his own words.
GlockLady thought I said it, so it must be my fault for not making it clearer...NO THOSE ARE NOT MY WORDS BUT JONTY30
And for the record I only called him on that after he wondered out loud if Gov Palin deserved to be addressed as Governor. I put these 2 post together and wondered where he was coming from.
It may well be that he was NOT trying to Sh** disturb? He said he wasn`t, so I give him benefit of doubt.
Once more I never wrote those words, it was cut and pasted by me and back to Jonty30
As long as that is cleared up. I am totally in the tank for Sarah, it`s Gov Sarah Palin 2012 or bust for me!
To: Jonty30
My apologies then. I just added this post to the recent one were you said....
All I Want For, President Palin
9/20/2011 3:29:26 AM · 5 of 22
Jonty30 to Navy Patriot
Assuming Sarah Palin is elected, it won’t be because of her that America is turned around.
It will be because the American people realize the damage the institutions are doing and will turn them around themselves.
She may be a welcome change, but she really is incidental to what happens, not instrumental.
The power have always been in the hands of the people, not particular individuals.
I thought perhaps you were just posting negative stuff , but if I was mistaken my apologies.
37 posted on 9/20/2011 12:01:26 PM by Friendofgeorge (Sarah Palin 2012 or flippin bust)
If you notice at the top it said To Jonty 30, It was fairly clear I think?
You I am sure by accident credited me for the other fellows words. I in no way shared those thoughts...
I hope you are clear on this now?
Where have you been? Every single on of those people you named get called “president”. Listen to the news. The same with other government officeholders and military officers. Ambassador Bolton, Secretary Powell. In his case one also hears General Powell.
I’ve been to Canada, where the common usage of a former polition is to call them, “Former (premier, Prime Minister, mayor, etc)”
“THE NEW PHONE-BOOKS ARE HERE!!! THE NEW PHONE-BOOKS ARE HERE!!!”
Ah! Convention is probably different from country to country.
Cindie
Why did you say what you said?
(joke...I couldn’t actually follow what you did or didn’t say, so that’s all I could muster)
Yas,
We’re very British that way. :D
It just seemed as though you were being aggressively negative on Palin threads, so I chimed in with my own opinion, sorry if I hurt your feelings!
PEACE and Be of good cheer, because help is on the way...PALIN 2012 :)
I take it you are funning with me, I did not find it funny, someone put words in my mouth that I did not say, and I am sure GLOCKLADY unintentionally did it.
All anybody needs to know is that I am 150% totally in the tank for Gov Palin. My posts reflect that without question
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