Posted on 06/11/2011 4:38:26 AM PDT by Clive
Only the politically correct, and they are the majority in the contemporary West, remain surprised of how quickly the so-called “Arab spring” has turned into an “Arab frenzy” and is headed into an “Arab inferno.”
In the long run, everything can likely work out and Arabs hopefully may learn to distinguish between mobocracy, as a tyranny of the majority, and democracy, as a rule of law, in which minorities are protected as equal members of society.
But in the long run, as Lord John Maynard Keynes — the revered economic guru of the liberal-left — pointed out the obvious: “In the long run we are all dead.” What matters is whether in the short or medium term Arab politics can break out of its closed circle of traditional consensus that frowns upon innovation as heresy.
The problem is culture. Arab culture, despite tremendous changes that have occurred elsewhere in the world, remains resilient in adhering to traditional values of patriarchy and the tribal order of father (leader) knows what is best for his tribe or nation.
The Arab League consists of 21 states and the Palestinian Authority. There is not one single democracy in this collection of Arab states, and the predominant reason for the absence of democracy among Arabs is culture.
Democracy is not merely an election, and a representative party with majority support holding power.
For democracy to work, the prerequisite is a culture in which the people recognizes the “other” — irrespective of how the “other” is defined in terms of ethnicity or religion or gender — as equal, and their interests and aspirations as legitimate.
This recognition of the “other” is missing in Arab culture. The “other” is merely tolerated in a subordinate status and since the “other” in the modern context is unwilling to be consigned indefinitely into an inferior position, the result is the repeated cycle of rebellion and repression in Arab history.
One of the most insightful explorations of the reasons for the absence of democracy in the Arab world is provided by an Arab-Moroccan woman, Fatima Mernissi.
Mernissi’s book Islam and Democracy: Fear of the Modern World (1992) is remarkable for the wealth of ideas she presents in explaining the anti-democratic culture of her people, and the fear of modernity that grips them.
The ultimate “other,” and also the ultimate “minority,” is the individual asserting his/her individuality against the collective order of men and things. In Arab culture, individualism — as cultivated in the West — is feared and repressed because its affirmation represents the freedom of an individual contesting with and moving out of the closed circle of the tribe.
The West (“gharb” in Arabic), as Mernissi explains, is frightening because, among many things, freedom renders it strange, and like the female form, freedom is seductive.
Arab culture, on the contrary, demands whatever is desirable and relished in private must be hidden (veiled) in public. The fear of “fitna” or anarchy haunts Arab culture.
“In our time,” Mernissi writes, “freedom in the Arab world is synonymous with disorder.” And so a culture suspicious of the West will continue to prefer arid summers of tribal order over any spring that heralds freedom for its people.
Salim Mansur ping
I’ve said for years that I am not actually all that afraid of the Arab and Muslim world. They’re NOT going to be able to take us over. They may be able to do damage, they can make pinprick attacks, and the West’s own foolishness may allow millions of them in who will then be “dealt with” (Europeans have done it before...) at a later date, but fundamentally, the Arab-Muslim civilisation is one that is past its prime and is in its long autumn, heading toward ultimate collapse.
Reminds me of something I wrote a couple of months ago - The Middle East, America, and the Culture of Liberty
Arab culture: steal, pillage, rape, kill. Repeat cycle. It’s all in the Koran, no discussion necessary.
How do you feel about the demographics? A billion-plus people with a lively birth rate scares me, even if their culture is collapsing.
(I say culture because they have no civilization to collapse.)
Salim misses the key issue in ISLAM.
ISLAM cannot and will not tolerate minorities under the contemporary jihad derangement syndrome.
Oh sure, a thousand years ago or so “toleration” at a price kept rebellions pacified. Today, though, any system under ISLAM that requires participation of disparate parties (even sunni and shite) dissolves into killing.
“Subjugation not Participation”
Cultures that do not adapt to changing circumstances are doomed. It is obvious that no Muslim country can compete in the modern world.
Arabs are Sand Savages not because of just tribalism, but because they are Moslim.
Islam is the cancer, radiation is the answer.
Islam is antithetical to America, and is irreconcilable with America.
Nuke the Moslim World before it nukes us.
Islam Delenda Est - because of what Islam is and because of what Moslims do.
You are probably right. The "Arab and Muslim world" isn't going to take us over or even pose a serious threat to us. It will collapse. For that very reason it will not succumb to the West but rather to a sort of Neo-Ottomanism. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, at least for the ME. There could be "opportunities" in the Levant for people who understand what is going on over there.
“the Arab-Muslim civilization is one that is past its prime and is in its long autumn, heading toward ultimate collapse.”
Your statements would be true except for demographics. The replacement rate in most of Europe is .3 per couple. (.3 of a child entering the workforce when the two parents retire.) The replacement rate in most Arab cultures is many, many times higher. The long term, fifty-year, prospect for Europe is that it will turn Islamic. (As I recall, Russia, Spain, Greece and Italy all have replacement rates below .3. No civilization has ever recovered from such a low replacement rate. The problem in Russia is that women have something like 3 abortions in their fertile years. Abortion is free, but raising a child is ruinously expensive.)
I believe the Arab nations as we know them will cease to be an effective power within 50 years. Hopefully much much less in years.
There will be someday very soon a momentous discovery be it from man or alien that will give everybody complete easy non taxable cheap energy for cars and home, and oil, its feuds, its taxes and the engines it runs on will become obsolete.
Salim deliberately misses the key of ISLAM. The piece is obviously more al taquia - deliberate religious sanctioned lying - to give liberals the hope that just talking will one day make the muslim arabs moderate islam - which will never happen
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“Submission not Participation”
It’s all in the Koran, no discussion necessary.
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absolutely! you nailed it!
this article correctly identifies facts and symptoms, and then misses the CAUSE.
...just as liberals constantly do. blaming the wrong thing, like “lack of money” for bad education. “poverty” for drug use and high crime.
= = =
For democracy to work, the prerequisite is a culture in which the people recognizes the “other” — irrespective of how the “other” is defined in terms of ethnicity or religion or gender — as equal, and their interests and aspirations as legitimate.
This recognition of the “other” is missing in Arab culture. The “other” is merely tolerated in a subordinate status
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EXACTLY. and all of this, is explained IN DETAIL in the Quran.
the Quran is their LITERALLY word of God. if you criticise it, it is blasphemy.
and it expressly FORBIDS the recognition of “other”.
it expressly defines the female gender as inferior.
the answers, the reasons, are THERE. in black and white !!!
...instead, the article calls that Muslim woman’s book “insightful” as to the “cause”. Ignoring the elephant in the room!
Leading Islamic scholars have themselves written articles, explaining why it is INCOMPATIBLE with democracy !
(yet in Western articles in english, they say the opposite.)
Islam doesn’t recognize ANY nation or government. ONLY ISLAM. it divides the world into exactly 2 parts.
the house of peace, and the house of war.
if we fail to understand this, especially with the demographics, then very soon, the WEST will be a
“relic of history”
“the Arab-Muslim civilisation is one that is past its prime and is in its long autumn, heading toward ultimate collapse.”
Given that the A-M prime was 1300 years ago, don’t you think this has been a rather extended autumn?
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Actually it is not all in the Quran - islam has other holy books which explain what the dictation of the words of allah (the Quran) mean: these are the hadiths and sunnahs - the life of Muhammad and the sayings of Muhammad - Tabari, Bukhari, Ishaq, and Muslim.
Quran 5:33 The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption, making mischief in the land [those who refuse to surrender to Islam] is murder, execution, crucifixion, the cutting off of hands and feet on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned. That is their degradation and disgrace in this world. And a great torment of an awful doom awaits them in the hereafter. Except for those who repent (and become Muslims) before you overpower them and they fall into your control.
Ishaq: 204 Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man (Muhammad)? Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.
The Quran tells how to serve allah, the others tell how to serve Muhammad — and believers must do both.
Without reading these other equally “holy” books one would not know that: the first given half of the Quran (mostly taken from the Bible and the Torah) was officially abrogated by Muhammad saying the second given half is the last revelations of allah: nor that allah’s paradise holds only 72,000 martyrs...
I think these facts are well known and have been recognized by enlightened Arab leaders for many years. The knowledge of the situation is vastly different from the development or implementation of a solution to change.
Although it is unknown or denied by many, there are many enlightened Arabs who have traveled extensively in the west, especially in America. They have actually lived here and gone to school. They know and understand the benefits of our society but they see and have great disdain for much as well. They have studied Phoenix and Tuscon and Palm Beach county and made their desert into cities very much like those here.
The crime, the destruction of families, the total absence of ethics and morals and honor are points of disgust. None of these traits of American society is acceptable. We conservatives disdain these traits as well, but we tolerate them even though they are detrimental to our personal lives.
To change, old men (and old Women) must die off. The sons and nephews and grand sons and great nephews are now becoming middle aged and are taking more and more responsibility and implementing the transition. It is of much importance that the CEO of the largest and extremely important Saudi trading company is a daughter, not a son. A very high placed executive in Saudi Aramco, an engineer I believe, is also a woman. She lives and works in Aramco Houston because the times are not yet right for living in Dhahran.
The unrest we see is manifestation of the change. It lacks focus and direction. Iran is the example to be avoided. No tyrannical mullahs will be accepted. Dubai is the shining beacon on the hill. Moderation, jobs and freedom...... that will be the way.
These enlightened young leaders will prevail.
History has shown it never does. Never. 200-250 years is about the limit till tyranny starts or the state ends. Once outside forces use the democratic process to divide and conquer, it is typically game over.
Given Islam is about 700 years behind the rest of the world, science and technology are not about to grant us that much time for this Cauldron to cool off.
wonderful points and info! abrogation is RARELY mentioned even here at FR.
...few know that abrogation is what makes taquiyya by CAIR so easy.
they quote the “nice” early verses, and don’t mention they have been abrogated by the later war verses, like 5, 8, and 9.
(especially when, as you certainly know, that the Quran is NOT written chronologically, but by the INSANE method of “length of chapter”. incredibly confusing...
also, some events in the Quran, CANNOT be understood without reading the Sira also, in addition to ahadith.
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