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To: elcid1970
It’s all in the Koran, no discussion necessary

Actually it is not all in the Quran - islam has other holy books which explain what the dictation of the words of allah (the Quran) mean: these are the hadiths and sunnahs - the life of Muhammad and the sayings of Muhammad - Tabari, Bukhari, Ishaq, and Muslim.

Quran 5:33 The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption, making mischief in the land [those who refuse to surrender to Islam] is murder, execution, crucifixion, the cutting off of hands and feet on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned. That is their degradation and disgrace in this world. And a great torment of an awful doom awaits them in the hereafter. Except for those who repent (and become Muslims) before you overpower them and they fall into your control.

Ishaq: 204 Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man (Muhammad)? Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.

The Quran tells how to serve allah, the others tell how to serve Muhammad — and believers must do both.

Without reading these other equally “holy” books one would not know that: the first given half of the Quran (mostly taken from the Bible and the Torah) was officially abrogated by Muhammad saying the second given half is the last revelations of allah: nor that allah’s paradise holds only 72,000 martyrs...

16 posted on 06/11/2011 5:54:51 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: PIF

wonderful points and info! abrogation is RARELY mentioned even here at FR.

...few know that abrogation is what makes taquiyya by CAIR so easy.
they quote the “nice” early verses, and don’t mention they have been abrogated by the later war verses, like 5, 8, and 9.
(especially when, as you certainly know, that the Quran is NOT written chronologically, but by the INSANE method of “length of chapter”. incredibly confusing...

also, some events in the Quran, CANNOT be understood without reading the Sira also, in addition to ahadith.


20 posted on 06/11/2011 6:12:57 AM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: PIF

Well...... I am aware of the hadiths and sira, but I referred to the Koran itself because there are Islamic apologists who will deny the validity of the hadiths, even those accepted as authoritative commentary on the Koran for many centuries, if they say things that infidels might interpret as prejudicial to Islam.

For example, that Jasser dude said on FoxNews that there is absolutely nothing in the Koran (a sly dodge, no?) about how rocks and trees will speak on judgement day, and tell the Muslims to kill the Jews hiding behind them. Of course, they really get uncomfortable (i.e., enraged) when infidels comment on a middleaged Mohammed and his child bride Aisha.

“There are hadiths, and then there are hadiths!” is another angered response from the ROPers.

Anyway, whoever said the Arab world is a culture and not a civilization, is spot on.


30 posted on 06/11/2011 6:48:47 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("Deport Muslims. Nuke Mecca. Death to Islam. Freedom for mankind.")
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